Runes of Magic US / AU

Well in this case you do what my guild is doing: you have someone who can do woodcutting, one for smithing, one for gathering, so on and so forth. You have one specific person for every crafting thing.

It still doesn't make sense. We can level one craft beyond 60, yet we can't gather our own mats for that? What if you don't have a friend that is a master in one of the two mats you need? You just can't craft? You spend millions on the AH buying overpriced mats?

It's a moronic setup. There's already VERY little incentive to even hit 60 in any craft, and they want to make it even worse by disabling us from even getting the materials needed to craft.

They current system is perfectly fine. as others have said, work with other guildies or even create some alts like I have done. The is no reason in the world why 1 toon should be able to monopolize the market.

I'm guessing they expect you to train a gathering skill up to the 60+ range, gather all the mats you'll ever need for the rest of time, then drop the gathering skill and train up a crafting skill in it's place. I think people have been spoiled by being able to both harvest and manufacture their items and now that it comes down having only one 60+ crafting skill, people actually have to stop and consider what exactly they are going to master. Imagine what any manufacturer now a days goes through; they don't gather raw materials to make their goods, they buy from companies that collect, refine, and distribute those raw materials. It will all come down to supply and demand; not to mention the natural selection process of business. Remember the golden rule; "He who has the gold makes the rules."

Quoted from "Draykon;357785"

They current system is perfectly fine. as others have said, work with other guildies or even create some alts like I have done. The is no reason in the world why 1 toon should be able to monopolize the market.

Being able to gather your own mats doesn't make for a monopoly.
As it stands my current issue of not being able to find a single piece of ancient spirit lumber is remedied by me leveling up my gathering.
I've yet to see one in AH, and quite frankly relying on Ah or guildies to do the gathering is just a very poor idea, and just another means of giving a smaller or newer guild a harder time moving forward.

We've been able to gather mats for our crafting choice. This going unchanged as it stands would be yet another case of "fixing" what was never broken.

Well, it takes like 5 minutes or less to level up alchemy to the point you can make collection potions for 5 levels higher.
Do the collection potions break a cap at 20, 40 or 60?

edit: Yes, they do. So if it's not changed, there's a very easy fix. +5 level collection pots are extremely cheap to make and very low level alchemy.

If master woodcutter / smelter / herbalist wanna make money, they'll have to sell the mats they gather to master crafter...

If they're overprice, no one will buy them and so they wont be able to make more money so it wont be good for them either...

I only wish next recipe will have a resell value at least equal to the material cost.

On Reni, Rune Obsidian Sand and Ancient Oak Spirit Timber sell for about 2500 a piece, Apple Thorn Bundle around 2000 a piece, Fairywood Timber and Frost Crystal Sand around 5000...

Getting a level 60 item from tailoring / Armor Crafting require about 150 pieces of Normal (wood/ore), 85 pieces of Normal herb and 43 pieces of rare materials... Total cost for a craft, when all mats come from AH is 375 000 + 170 000 + 215 000 = 760 000 gold...

There's so much UD piece on the market that we cant sell them for more than 450 000g each. Hopefully, we get a OD once in a while that sell for about 2.5 mil and cover for the cost of mats of all UD.

Overall, i would get more gold by selling mats i use for crafting over the craft himself... That's the biggest issue right now...

It's all about supply and demand.

Anyone can get Alchemy, Mining, and Herbalism up to lvl 60, so making Alchemy pots is very convenient, thus low demand. With 61+, only one skill can be brought up to this point, so you need to specialize in Alchemy or Mining or Herbalism. Hence, the demand for 61+ pots will be high (as they can't be entirely self-crafted) and Alchemists can get away with charging more for them. But ultimately, if making the pots and selling them is unprofitable, then it's illogical to specialize in Alchemy for profit. Better to specialize in a gathering skill and sell those instead, letting someone else eat the loss if they want to. Then, use your profits to buy pots from some lame-brain who hasn't figured out basic economic theory yet. Then, when/if Alchemy ever becomes profitable more so than harvesting, you can chose to stay with the steady income of being a harvester, or invest in becoming an Alchemist for greater profit. Honestly, I think if they offered less production skill options from the onset, Crafting in general wouldn't be so lopsided (also, gear crafting would have to be competitive with gear looting). Something like 4 crafts up to lvl 40, 2 up to 60, 1 up to 80 would have made crafting more viable. Too late to make that big of a change now, though; unless everyone's crafting were reset to zero, we get compensatory "crafting points" based on how much crafting progress was lost to boost crafts as we saw fit, and refunds of the money/mats used to rank up the skills.

But the fact still remains that most crafted items are much less profitable than the mats used to make them...so those of us that choose to take actual crafts past 60 will just be SOL, while those who take gathering skills will be swimming in money from it.

I understand what you guys are saying, really, but with the way RoM's crafting system works, I don't see having only one craft past 60 being a viable choice. Crafting will become a lose-lose situation, when the crafted items (if they sell at all) sell for only a small fraction of the cost of buying all the mats needed.

If crafted items sold better, then this wouldn't be an issue. But it's RoM .

Heres an idea for every one! Why dont we get them to unlock all crafts and gathering skills and have them set to unlimmited so that every one can do every thing. It would make everys ones lives much easier! But at the same time it would also cause the games economy to crash.... I do suport the idea of Frogster adding it a few very High end recipes that might have mat costs similar to the cost of exsiting recipes, but also are so aww inspiring that the end cost could be double or even triple the cost of the current best recipes....

when you check the pricing system you'll notice that the developers mainly intended the crafting system to be a gold sink or that they were at least overly concerned that it would be too big of a source of gold ... sure if you make something 'valuable' out of a few bits and bytes that's what you get: gold appearing out of nowhere.

meanwhile the economics don't really work like the system suggests because players try to charge for their time and effort on the supply side while the demand is lowered because a lot of alternatives exist in game which require less or sometimes no 'effort' or simply which have more of a fun factor in them than the crafting aspects of the game.

this principle even sets itself through in the crafting itself:
on the gathering side:why would you spend this amount of time gathering stuff when there are plenty of alternatives to gain gold faster?
on the production side you might be able to craft some good stuff every once in a while but the expense is often staggering and the result often random.

though i must say that the system has been improved and quite a lot compared to what it was at the start at the other side new alternatives already emerged in direct competition with crafting.

i'm sorry to say it's clear that the developers never intended the crafts to really work. it appears they do want to keep up the illusion though because there are still players who value a crafting system so they make some adjustments from time to time but that's about it and i doubt a new rework is high on the priority list.

First: crafting in ALMOST ALL FTP MMOS is a money sink. Meaning this: you can USUALLY get better gear/items from some other source (ie. playing and killing stuff).

That understood, it is not hard to see why crafters always get the shaft in games like this. Don't expect it to change any time soon. If you could make the best weapons in the game then nobody would "adventure" into dungeons. ATM I am happy that crafting at least has unique features in THIS game, such as being able to make unique food, pots, armor (for skill sets), and weaponry (in theory, because they broke all the sets for weaponsmiths by not putt ing in recipes for set skills). At least blacksmith still has a use - as a non-drop crafted 60 sword, axe and dagger can get you in to where you can get the drops.

As far as the 60/80 thing goes - I would say this is a MUCH NEEDED feature of the game. If everyone could craft the best stuff could you imagine trying to gather mats? I much appreciate that pots only let you go about 8 levels higher collecting, and then you have to find someone else to help. It makes the game a lot more social.

gathering/refining is a profession for a reason. It takes time to build up and costs a lot to master.

Make sure to tip your gatherer/refiner!

I agree it will be pretty stupid to only allow one profession above 60. We should at least be able to carry one gathering and one crafting skill all the way through. Otherwise the gatherers can easily just over price the crafters all the time making crafting pointless. Way too limited tbh.

Quoted from "tkdyo;419440"

I agree it will be pretty stupid to only allow one profession above 60. We should at least be able to carry one gathering and one crafting skill all the way through. Otherwise the gatherers can easily just over price the crafters all the time making crafting pointless. Way too limited tbh.

But if the gatherers overprice the crafters, then the crafters do one of two things, raise their prices or refuse to buy.

If they raise prices, then the market finds a new higher equilibrium. If they refuse to buy, the gatherers are forced to lower prices until they find a lower equilibrium.

Quoted from "tkdyo;419440"

I agree it will be pretty stupid to only allow one profession above 60. We should at least be able to carry one gathering and one crafting skill all the way through. Otherwise the gatherers can easily just over price the crafters all the time making crafting pointless. Way too limited tbh.

Since most crafting skills require TWO kinds of mats, why not just make gathering unlimited? Then the crafters can obtain ALL the mats they need, for whatever craft they practice.

Quoted from "maouse;395130"

First: crafting in ALMOST ALL FTP MMOS is a money sink. Meaning this: you can USUALLY get better gear/items from some other source (ie. playing and killing stuff).

That understood, it is not hard to see why crafters always get the shaft in games like this. Don't expect it to change any time soon. If you could make the best weapons in the game then nobody would "adventure" into dungeons. ATM I am happy that crafting at least has unique features in THIS game, such as being able to make unique food, pots, armor (for skill sets), and weaponry (in theory, because they broke all the sets for weaponsmiths by not putt ing in recipes for set skills). At least blacksmith still has a use - as a non-drop crafted 60 sword, axe and dagger can get you in to where you can get the drops.

As far as the 60/80 thing goes - I would say this is a MUCH NEEDED feature of the game. If everyone could craft the best stuff could you imagine trying to gather mats? I much appreciate that pots only let you go about 8 levels higher collecting, and then you have to find someone else to help. It makes the game a lot more social.

Totally agree with your assessment. Right now, I'm just trying to figure out if I want to get on this hamster wheel. It is clear that crafting provides little or no benefit at higher ranks. Being a master doesn't mean that you can actually craft something useful for yourself or anyone else, since no matter what your level of expertise, the crit rate is extremely low.

Now, if the devs wanted to sell something in the Item Shop that increased your crit rate dramatically, then they might have a money maker and it might be worthwhile going through the pain of leveling to just one craft.

The idea that you can purchase "supplies" on the AH from gatherers is simply not well thought out. The cost for a gatherer to reach master is high in both gold and time. And for what? Nothing but gold, which, as you point out, can be obtained more easily and for more fun in other ways. In other words, simply doing actual fun things is more rewarding. (I'm not a fan of the 'get your guild to help' reason for ignoring this issue. Relying on others to freely give you time/money/mats is not a healthy crafting system.)

Sometimes developers miss the point that for many players crafting is a fun activity to be enjoyed as much as questing; consequently, they only see it in terms of game design function, when they could be adding a very pleasurable dimension to the game that would either bring more players in or make those who are playing more satisfied.

Right now, as I see it, there is no value to the crafting system; its only reason for being as a game mechanic is to get elite skills. Once those are acquired, there is no reason to invest time, effort, or money in crafting.

Overly restrictive, extremely tedious, horribly expensive crafting systems like RoM's actually hurt the game in the long run. The fact that there is almost no activity in this forum speaks volumes.

The problem, of course, is balancing how valuable crafting is compared to drops. If all the best gear were crafted, then there would be no point running content to get the good equipables. If the best gear is dropped, there's no point dealing with the item creation. I think, ultimately, the solutions comes in combining the best of both worlds. Instead of item creation making an entire piece, let it be a system that customizes existing pieces. Say you have two pieces; piece A is part of a set while piece B is a stand-alone with higher defense and ghosts on it. Item crafting should involve taking piece B (which has to be farmed from content) and putting learned set bonuses on it. Then we have to consider compromising IC consumables with Housemaid consumables. I can see the IC consumables being stronger but having a cooldown of sufficient length to not have them active 100% of the time; whereas housemaid consumables can be lower strength but have a duration longer than the cooldown.

Ideally speaking, we want to have some free-trade going that involves harvesters trading their goods to the producers but since the producers A) have to massively over-produce to train up and B) produce things that, currently, aren't in high demand; we encounter the classic example of "economically fubar" with high supply and low demand on produced items. The way to solve this is A) make the curve not quite so steep to train up production and B) make the produced items worthwhile (as stated above).

Greetings

I really fail to see the problem with having limits on crafting skills at 20, 40, 60, and 80..

Sure.. you cant have all of the crafts/gathering skills on one character.

You have 8 character slots per account.

Make 1 for each gathering skill that is powerful enough to 'go' to the gathering points and get the materials. (So you'd need 3 lvl 55+ characters) to master all 3 gathering skills to 80.

You can be lowlevel on the rest of the characters b/c you really do not need to even leave your house other than to visit a mailbox to pickup materials sent by the 3 highlevels and drop off items produced at the vendors or AH.

Also with pet gathering.. who really needs to make a gathering character anyway? (Assuming they allow pets to go above 60 skill)

Then theres honor vendors in Obsidian Stronghold that sell mats.. and I know I saw some selling them for mentos...

Theres plenty of options to get mats if you need them.
Plenty of options for mastering each craft if you really want to.

Peace
UOAbigail