Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "zidlef"

Metatime, if all those others games are so awesome and perfectly managed, why do you come here to complain and make advertisement for them? Saying RustyX is what's wrong with ROM??

ROM has been here for 6 years and still going, you don't have to be endgame to enjoy the game, you don't have to spend money on the game either, that is your choice. Some of us don't mind spending money on ROM for various reasons mentioned in many other posts on the forums.

There are many ways to get stuff from the game for free, gotta learn the ways of them, but too many will always have the mentally of a spoiled brat and go : I WANT IT NOW!!!. Don't want to spend the time, you're gonna have to spend the money.

But do have fun in those other superb games you mentioned in your post.

I'm sorry if you don't want to hear the truth about the game, I did not come here to insult you but I guess being defensive is the first reaction to someone who is infallibly dedicated to this game. Which is fine but it can't be to the point where you're blinded as to what is going on.

I post those games because they have a great examples of having a good cash shop, mostly vanity and convenience items, maybe the devs from runewaker can learn from them? Guess your tag team buddy can mentioned PAD but I can't mentioned a game? Real fair there.

I guess insulting is the only way to get your point across? I just recently bought a house and car, I saved up like 10+ yrs for the house. Yea sure I want everything handed to me, guess I don't know anything about life, thanks for the insults!

Well this game ain't Rift, GW2 or D3 or any shooter you can get, this is ROM. My comments was meant as a general comment for most people complaining about : Hey !! it's F2P!! why do i have to spend money, you don't , farm it and purchase it.

Who cares about vanity stuff and be willing to spend only on those? ah yes cause everyone in those games are the same. This comes with the same mentality in schools these days, no matter if you finish first or last, we are all winners!!!! LMAO

How long have you been playing ROM? what level are you at? and then we can have a conversation about stuff.

am I the only one that fails to see the difference between zid telling people to go play something else and other people telling said persons to play something else? especially how one is apparently OK and one isn't?

there is a reason that other games are succeeding and RoM is failing(in us and eu-en. can't speak for eu-de). most people here are just trying to draw parallels. one of the biggest differences is most (currently) successful games have vanity or convenience based cash shops. then there's RoM. they might as well just sell premodded gear for the power the IS gives you...

Quoted from "zidlef"

How long have you been playing ROM? what level are you at? and then we can have a conversation about stuff.

Really? Like that matters? Okay, I'm level capped just like you. I've been playing for five years. I have far more experience with how expensive this game is because I'm actually endgame and I stay endgame, unlike you, and I think the cash shop is too expensive. Let's have a discussion.

Your arguments are ridiculous. Nobody on these forums is allowed to have a negative opinion without you jumping in and telling them that everything is perfect and they should just go somewhere else if they don't like it. Then you go right around and complain that there's not enough players and GF needs to advertise and do something about the dropping population.

Yikes! Can't we all agree to disagree and move on? Cike makes a great point btw, the debate seems to be more a semantic argument than anything else at this point.

My 2 cents: Is RoM too expensive? Well, that is as subjective now as it has always been. RoM has ALWAYS been P2W, that hasn't changed. Perhaps what HAS changed is just a lot of peoples' perspective on how much is just too much (or maybe people are just running out of money lol). Either way, enough people seem to be posting about this both in the US and EU that maybe, just maybe the prices have finally outpaced the utility and entertainment value.

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

Yikes! Can't we all agree to disagree and move on? Cike makes a great point btw, the debate seems to be more a semantic argument than anything else at this point.

This is an excellent point. Let's keep on track here.

Quoted from "Borella"

Quoted from "zidlef"

How long have you been playing ROM? what level are you at? and then we can have a conversation about stuff.

Really? Like that matters? Okay, I'm level capped just like you. I've been playing for five years. I have far more experience with how expensive this game is because I'm actually endgame and I stay endgame, unlike you, and I think the cash shop is too expensive. Let's have a discussion.

Your arguments are ridiculous. Nobody on these forums is allowed to have a negative opinion without you jumping in and telling them that everything is perfect and they should just go somewhere else if they don't like it. Then you go right around and complain that there's not enough players and GF needs to advertise and do something about the dropping population.

Completely agree with this.

And I also agree with you that if, as Zid says, we're basing our quality of opinions on what level someone is or how long they've played, then heck, let's go full force and say the better gear you have, and how many instances you've cleared, the more valid your opinion is. In which case Zid, you really don't have a leg to stand on. A person's level holds absolutely no basis on someone's opinion for this game.

Can you play the game without spending a dime? Yes. We've gone over this idk how many thousands of times, but It takes very little time to clearly see that in order to stay current (as in current gear, all +16, all T6 - T8 gear, T10 - T12 weapons, all 4 rune slotted gear and weapon) then yes, you better be willing to shell out some big bucks. Saying you can get all that without spending a dime "if you just farm enough" is such a nonsense statement to make. How long do you think it's gonna take someone to build up the gold to not spend a dime on this game and get to a "current" status? It's a ludicrous mindset to say that's a viable option.


Constantly just saying "oh well if you don't like it you can leave"...how is that helpful? Constant hypocrisy Zid..you do complain a LOT how there aren't enough people, and there's really not, I'll give you that. Yet every time someone has the slightest issue you tell them they should just get lost.

Quoted from "Cike"

there is a reason that other games are succeeding and RoM is failing(in us and eu-en. can't speak for eu-de). most people here are just trying to draw parallels. one of the biggest differences is most (currently) successful games have vanity or convenience based cash shops. then there's RoM. they might as well just sell premodded gear for the power the IS gives you...

And I also agree with this point. You see much happier gamers in other F2P games BECAUSE their F2P model is based around novelty items or novelty clothing that has no impact on progressing in the game. In those games you can ACTUALLY BE END GAME without having to shell out hundreds if not thousands of dollars like in RoM. You don't have to spend a dime and you can be just as end game as the next guy.

Not that it'll have any sway on the gambling system in RoM, but I'd also like to add that, for a game that costs SO MUCH already to be "current", and to have purchasable gems that have a chance at not only failing, but have the potential to drop the plussing level of your gear?? That is pure sadism.

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

My 2 cents: Is RoM too expensive? Well, that is as subjective now as it has always been. RoM has ALWAYS been P2W, that hasn't changed. Perhaps what HAS changed is just a lot of peoples' perspective on how much is just too much (or maybe people are just running out of money lol). Either way, enough people seem to be posting about this both in the US and EU that maybe, just maybe the prices have finally outpaced the utility and entertainment value.

And I just saw Tuulikki's comment so I'd like to touch on that as well lol, and have to say that's an excellent point as well. I too feel the reason players display such animosity towards GF now is that it finally HAS come to a point where enough is enough and it's just gotten to a costs that is WAY too much to stay "current".


TL;DR:

---The only point Zid makes that is correct is that YES, TECHNICALLY you can play this game without spending a dime.
Will you ever be "current"? No.
Will the amount of grinding you have to do to be COMPLETELY F2P to be even CLOSE to "current" drive you mad and make you quit? I'd say WAY more often than not, the answer is Yes.

---I agree with Borella, Cike and Tuulikki wholeheartedly

Well i will always have an issue with players coming to these forums talking about how great other games are, how much better they do things blabla, why the hell are they here then?

We all know the item shop could have better prices, but will that happen? how many threads we have made about this? for 3 years and nothing as mainly changed, why? cause Gameforge don't give a crap about ROM anymore. GM's do but there is only so much they can do.

When someone says the game is expensive, well there are ways to make it cheaper, invest time in it, if you play an hour a day only, well open your wallet. Don't you think Gameforge knows about other games offers etc?

I will blame the prices on AH and people manipulating diamond prices for players that left the game also, player base is to blame for this. But apparently Cike, Borella and Xaldyn always have an issue with any opinion i put up, but tell you what, i really don't care, it is my opinion.

BTW the only reason we can't clear the hardmode version is lack of DPS on Reni, we at least try and looking forward to the merge. Then we might be able to find a few more players like us in small guilds to run with.

Point is, ROM has way more competition then it did when it started years ago. If they're all far cheaper to play, people go there. I don't think its an issue to compare ROM to other games. Cause fact is, rom is super expensive compared to other games. And even when the players are suggesting things to improve gf just ignore us and keep doing things how they want. Fact is they want money, we want cheaper prices but they aren't prepared to compromise. You shouldn't have to grind for hours on alts just to play ROM at a decent level. Btw I totally agree with borella cike and tuulikki also. Change itemshop tyvm.

No more "other servers"...

Huehue here I go...

If you aren't satisfied that's your problem.

If, however, you choose to try and fix the reason you are unsatisfied, that is a reasonable argument.

To attempt to match your level of satisfaction with anothers' level of satisfaction over the same thing, I give you this dilemma;
I get a large amount of satisfaction out of driving fast, my grandmother however does not. Therefore it is illogical to try and tell my grandma she's wrong about how fun it is to drive fast.

And lastly, chill the fk out holy crap nothing should be this troubling to anyone let alone a discussion based on the cost/return of your time, whether it's spent in game or at work (which then you use the money you grinded from work to use on the game). It's completely obvious this game is a large suck of one(money), the other(time), or both to be viable. Which in my view is unacceptable. A game is made for fun, it's not a lifestyle.

Potato

Well I wanted to get in on this and state my opinion before this thread gets closed lol. I always feel that Zid and RustyX feel the need to defend the game, which is fine they love to play the game no matter what the issues are. But telling people to leave the forums because they are complaining about the cost of the game is just wrong. If no one came here and complained about anything, then for sure nothing would ever get fixed or even considered to get fixed. ROM is a game and if not compared to other games what would we compare it to?? I love ROM because you can make your character unique and everyone is different. THis is the biggest plus for the game for me, other people may have different reasons.

For new players to reach ENDGAME and remain there, ROM totally is very expensive, no matter how you look at it. Again it is up to the individual people if they want to spend money or not, but if you don't , it will take forever and you will probably never be considered to run instances. Instances and game progression and getting my toon stronger is why I play ROM. It is getting more and more expensive to stay on top of things so yes something needs to be done to correct this and to get more people playing this game.

I think it is a great idea to have more vanity stuff in the AH, create some different costumes, clothing aggregates (jeans and tank tops would be awesome, or denim shorts) and weapon aggregates, I think Zid be very surprised how many people would be willing to spend money on them. If you have more things like this that people will purchase, maybe, just maybe other "necessity" items in the IS could be reduced. Rom would still make the money that they want and people would be more happy with the IS prices. Just a thought.

Anyhow, regardless of what opinion people have, the forums is the place to come and express yourself. Be decent and respect everyone's opinion regardless if is different than yours .

Pyper
Palenque

Jada and Mamoony i agree with both of you on your posts, but when we had costumes in the item shop, that is the items that were used to dupe stuff in game. That is also the time a lot of players left the game, either by being banned for participating in it or being disgusted to see players taking advantage of that and they actually paid real money to enjoy the game. So i understand why not more items are in the costumes section, that makes me sad for those who would want them.

Also Jada i think the cowgirl package + the valentines heart tank top looks good on a female toon

Also this game as stated many times by me and other players on the forums, was never meant to be endgame in a weekend and run the latest instance. It takes time, TP etc, unlike those other games that all you have to look for is looking good. ROM has more choices for doing stuff in game.

Quoted from "zidlef"

Also this game as stated many times by me and other players on the forums, was never meant to be endgame in a weekend and run the latest instance. It takes time, TP etc, unlike those other games that all you have to look for is looking good. ROM has more choices for doing stuff in game.

Si, but it get's just a little bit more extreme with every "expansion".

As the level cap increases, as does the cost of doing the level cap instances. With the requirements to pass the instances demanding a higher tier, or higher plus, or even a different class to participate in certain aspects of the game (and this is not excluded to endgame instances).

And at that, XP for level as compared to TP for level is incessantly out of whack. 90million xp =\= 9 million TP (level 90-91). Which is about 4 skills you get to level up. Now, being a scout, I use 15 significantly relevant skills that I would like to have filled up (don't max at 50). And 3 other, can live without being maxed skills I'd also like to fill up.

I would not mind if but 10 of these could get leveled up each time I increase in level. I wouldn't mind so much if the other 8 were grinded. But 13/18 of my skills that have to be earned through (not kidding) hundreds of hours killing tens of thousands of the same monster to accomplish. Imagine at a standard lower-middle class pay rate of $20/hour. I don't think it would be easy to tell me that if your time is averagely worth $20 an hour, that you would spend 100 hours (basically $2,000 [time=\=money]) to get your skills to max level? Again, it's understood that the game is also meant to be fun, and can't be directly correlated with money, but the return for the investment is, in my view, certainly not lucrative for the player. I think a good solution to this is either a base increase on TP from monsters, quests, or more extreme talent point potions (talkin 500-750% here) in the IS.

I do believe that as the game get's bigger, it should not get more expensive. But instead stay at a solid rate. And yes, it should cost the player a reasonable amount more to be "endgame" and there's a reason it's called "bleeding endgame". But I don't think player's who are going through old content should have to pay some of the same prices.

For example, When the cap increases past 90, the level 90 jewels shouldn't go out of the shop. And even worse, the new level 100 jewels shouldn't cost more than what the level 90 jewels did.

People are being taken advantage of, and it's the people who are doing the endgame, and the people who are trying to start playing the game fresh. New players (lower leveled) shouldn't be subjugated to the same price to plus level 50-80 gear as those plussing level 80-90 gear.

K I am going to chime in on this and hope it doesn't turn into a rant.

First point I want to hit is the "bringing up other games" part of this and other threads. There is a very specific reason to do this, which I totally agree with. Lets just bring up Rift... their wardrobe system, SUCKS. However, a lot of RoM players play that game and have been complaining about it and wanting a better system, using ROM as an example on their forums.... Rift is now implementing a RoM-like, Magic-closet-ish wardrobe system soon. They listened to what works in other games and are implementing it. I think if RoM listened to things that people like in other games and decide to put SOME of them in... they can become a BETTER game. Other games will never have 1) our characters transferred to it (which we have a lot of time in), 2) all of our friends and guildmates (cause some wont go there), 3) dual class system (which is sometimes a blessing and a curse for RoM), and many other things. However, there are parts of RoM we would like to see become BETTER, and using other games where it is succeeding is a great way to get the Producers at RoM to see that it works as a business model and might want to adopt it. These suggestions should never be taken as "I want this game to be like XYZ game", but as "this aspect works in other games and makes money, I wish RoM would do the same". Just my 2cents.

On the same hand though trashing RoM talking about how much better other games are as a whole... not cool. Adding in suggestions of cool features/systems you like (regardless where you experienced them) should be welcomed without the resistance we see.

Now RoM's cost... Yes it is a little too high. When I think about what I have spent on the game... I kinda cringe. It has lead me to play a lot less and really ration my money and change how my regearing goes. I don't think I am poorly geared, but I may be getting close to the point an endgame guild might not let me in anymore. Do I think the entire pay system needs to be reworked? NO. But YES YES YES to the plussing gems and Gashas, those need to change. When people stop upgrading gear cause of the plussing cost.... it is an issue. I would rather clean and restat an item than replus it a lot of cases. I am all ok with spending some money on the game but the "open your wallet" system just isn't sustainable.

Now lets talk about Zid's main point (as I see it). It reminds me of an old boss I had. He always said "work smarter not harder". When I am playing rom in full swing I do about 48 dailies a day. Me and my gf have a 14 max level decently geared characters (some with more than one set of gear, not the best, but not horrible). Through these I get a lot of freebies through dailies/ptokens, I can run a LOT of mini games for stats, get gold through the dailies, and ultimately spend less money on the game. This is available to everyone. Now it takes a good deal of work, some time, and the inclination to do it. When I go back to work full time... I probably will bypass a lot of that and spend more money, cause my time will be more precious.

So in recap (if you didn't wanna read all of this), bringing up other games as examples of systems that are working, with features you wish RoM could have is not a bad thing. Yes the game needs to curb its costs a little, but you can get what you want without spending money... just takes time. We all want RoM to succeed and the more suggestions the players put out the better CHANCE we have of it lasting. The old thing "if we don't now it is broke, how can we fix it". As long as we tell RoM what we think needs to be done, we can feel as players we have done what we can to keep the game we love running. Then it is in their hands to make it happen. If they don't, and the game fails, that is on them.

The problem isn't that the game is too expensive. It is expensive in time or money. That however is not the core of the problem. Other games are just as expensive or even more so but they do not have the player loss that ROM does.
The problem with ROM is that the money spent is wasted far too often and gives the players no satisfaction for their purchases some examples are:

1 The failure rate of plus gems. People could live with the high failure rate if when a fail took place it did not lose the plus level it had previously achieved. When you take something that someone had purchased before and already had you risk the chance of permanently alienating that person and causing them to leave.

2 Nerfing after a player has spend hundreds and sometimes thousands creating a character it is nerfed to make it unplayable. Once again you take away something a person already has and paid big money to get.

3 There is no response to questions or problems when presented. All other costly games make customer service and keeping players updated a primary function of their success, Here anytime you bring up a question or try to get an answer to a question it is at best ignored. How many threads were closed when problems with events were brought forth while denying there were problems. The events were then canceled . The problems went away. But never an admission that there was a problem with the event.

4 Lack or response to long time problems. The current Scout problems and the refusal to deal with them or even respond to why they refuse to deal with them is a prime example.

5 Lack of access to anyone who can actually make changes. The other games who have to remain nameless by forum rules quite often make members of management and programing available for question and answer sessions. Sometimes live sometimes in the forums. They however show that they actually want to know what people are thinking and let people know what is going on and why they do things. (The GMs do their best but they have no power to make changes or give definitive answers to many questions).

6 Lack of response to suggestions, ( The prior post of how another game handled suggestions about costumes describes perfectly what never happens in ROM).

The problem with ROM is not the cost but what people get for their money. The ability to lose everything spent immediately without notice or explanation. The complete lack of shown interest in answering questions about problems people have with the game. The take it or leave attitude that permeates everything they do,

To sum up everything everyone is saying:

• The game is expensive. You will spend a lot of time, money, or both to be endgame.
  If ROM was advertised (at all), then more people would probably play the game.
  Other games have different ways of getting money from players.
  Other games have some aspects that are cool and could/should be implemented in ROM.
  People have opinions.
  Trolls are real and come in a variety of colors.
  

Now everybody go log in and let's die in some instance runs!

Bows to DK and Advaark to putting the finger on the problem, i would take both your posts, put them in a forum thread as the perfect example for new players joining the game, so these discussion people start and fail to see the point of long time players are trying to make.

Very well explained to ALL ISSUES the game is suffering from, Gameforge needs to step up and get their fingers out of... you know what. The GM's are the best ones we've got in game EVER!!! More power to Saito and Aqualink to get things moving in the right direction. You don't need a degree in economics to see what players want and that could earn the company money. Many have voiced their opinions about a lot of the stuff, CARROT weapon AGG please ;-).

The merge will help but that will just be a bandaid on the problem, advertisement, facebook, twitter etc. What did Gameforge do for the 6th anniversary of the game in terms of advertisement? look here http://us.gameforge.com/home/index ROM is listed as NEW GAME!! LOL where is the mention of 6th anniversary? where is the Spaaaz, punt intended ;-) the mojo, the excitement, you know you can only shoot yourself in the foot so many times before nothing is left of it.

I agree 100% with zids last post.

As a potentially returning player the cash shop worries me.
My gear was endgame 2 years ago (seriously still rocking tosh gear as we never cleared KBN on the AU server)

Sure i can just resat some items, i can even open my wallet again. i wont tell you an exact figure but I have around 25k daily token coins from smashing daily resets just for the tp to max all my skills (300 Mil TP isnt enough at lvl 80 btw)

Sure I may have a recon X or 2 that might buy me a first born child, but I agree with 1 point in all of this thread the cost needs to be capped.

Everytime plussing stones go up in levels the price goes up too. Id much rather the price capped out and lower stuff became cheaper. Im sure we had that discussion years ago along with making lower level bound gear 50 60 70 etc cheaper that spending 99 dias per abl.

I've been following this thread for a while now and I can only say this:



I'm still a firm believer of the fact that the players made it as expensive as it is to be endgame. Once +12's hit the streets, people were buying and gasha gambling their wife's paycheck away to have them. Runewaker saw this, and increased the difficulty of the instances, or the publisher (be it Gameforge or Frogster) saw they were making profit and informed Runewaker that the instances were too easy because tons of people had +12 gear. Then +16 hit, it was the same damn way with the same cycle. People bought them up, Runewaker realized that instance clears were getting faster and more frequent, so they upped the difficulty of future instances. Now, there is such a HUGE separation of people that are endgame and not endgame (there really is no more grey area, it's either you are or aren't) that the non-endgamers feel stuck, and newer players come in and realize what they might have to invest and leave (threads like this, as always, don't help).

I feel just happy and content playing this game very casually, and not endgame. I have fun leveling up, crafting, running quests for others, siegewar, etc. I'm not sure where the idea of "fun" and "being endgame" came from when put together, but I'm happily content with not being endgame.