Runes of Magic US / AU

I like the idea of the ranks and marking cheaters. The runs of wins and losses are pretty pointless except for Valkyre. Most of those will go to guild hoppers that intentially lose many fights in order to win many when they return to that guild.

I know of 2 major cheater guilds so far from the posts players have made. I have seen a few other lesser cheaters that I have not posted about, mainly those using the warden crash.

The achievement system is amazingly done!

I love it, keep it up!

Who exactly would be the judge of who is cheating?
I get called all kinds of names simply because I can kill in Siege as a Priest. The word "hack" and "cheat" are the most misused words in this game.

If you leave it up to the players to decide who's cheating....everyone will be marked as cheater.

It's a GM's job to monitor and discipline people for cheating or hacking, and there is good reason players can't.

I hear all kinds of people complain their tickets and fraps they sent in never resulted in a ban. Well folks...hate to break it to you but maybe after they investigated it was found that it was not what it appeared to be on your screen. There is issues with Siege and not everything is as appears.

Case in point there is a regular poster in these forums, and we ended up against this persons guild in siege a few nights ago. I, as well as my guild we called cheaters many times along with a few other choice words. Yet there was no one in my guild doing anything other then trying to have a good siege. I was told i was glitching into their castle, of which I was never anywhere near the inside of their castle the entire siege. Of which I re-logged before siege, and twice during. About half way through this match the most well know member of their guild planted FOT's inside the bridge pillars, and could not be destroyed.
So now who is the cheater...the one who called it first, or the ones that actually did it?
No players have the tools needed to prove what is a hack, or cheat during siege. Leave it to the GM's.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444784"

Who exactly would be the judge of who is cheating?

I think they intend to make sure there is video evidence to back up the label before running with it, otherwise it'll be as you say and be a "he said, he said" contest.

Quoted from "wolfowl77;444875"

I think they intend to make sure there is video evidence to back up the label before running with it, otherwise it'll be as you say and be a "he said, he said" contest.

But has everyone not learned yet that what is displayed on one persons screen in a video may not be what the supposed perpetrators see. Even more so since glitching & porting has become a sticking point to some. I don't show my toon porting on my screen, although others say I am.
That's why there is so few bans issued from the GM's. It is something they take a deeper look into rather then just using video or screen shots. Most of the time you can't even convince a lvl 55 player that your not a hack because your lvl 67 and their attacks on you show immune.

If the creators of the excellent unbiased Top 50 site want to turn their site in to battle grounds of he said, she said, then adding a "cheat' list to it would definitely accomplish that.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444884"

But has everyone not learned yet that what is displayed on one persons screen in a video may not be what the supposed perpetrators see. Even more so since glitching & porting has become a sticking point to some. I don't show my toon porting on my screen, although others say I am.

Porting around is one thing, but how about filming someone in the castle in the first couple of minutes with all the gates still up? Or someone flying across a ravine?

I'm speaking of things like that and I hope that Welshde won't use vids of commonplace non-hacking siege errors as evidence of cheating.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444884"

But has everyone not learned yet that what is displayed on one persons screen in a video may not be what the supposed perpetrators see. Even more so since glitching & porting has become a sticking point to some. I don't show my toon porting on my screen, although others say I am.

That's why there is so few bans issued from the GM's. It is something they take a deeper look into rather then just using video or screen shots.

The thing is, The GM's used to ban people for excessive lag, because a guildy got banned for 2 weeks from it, even though everything looked normal on her screen. But now, If I report someone and have video of extreme cases of lag, nothing happens to the lagger.

They basically are saying by their refusal to ban "Go ahead and make yourself laggy as possible so nobody can hit you. We won't do anything to you." It makes me re-think my relogging before siege. If they will not ban for it, why shouldn't I do it too? After all, I can always jump when I need to trade with someone and I can show fraps of my own character looking normal as evidence to save me if they do ban.

Every player that is not attackable in siege because of their refusal to relog shows perfectly normal on their screen, so therefore it is an open invitation to intentionally lag.

Quoted from "wolfowl77;444886"

Porting around is one thing, but how about filming someone in the castle in the first couple of minutes with all the gates still up?

I think it depends on what the person is doing in the castle. I've had times, and usually towards the start of siege, where I can't see the oponents castle. I usually just try to avoid the entire area where I know the castle "should be", but sometimes if I'm running around in combat I might accidentaly end up in that area, and then I'll technically "be inside" the castle even though I see nothing at all.

This has happend only 2 or 3 times to me, and I always just run back out without doing anything. So I guess you could say, if they were attacking the processing factory for an extended period of time (not just by mistake in heat of combat), then yah, pretty obvious cheater. Just being in the castle though, not always cheaters.

Also... don't forget the game has plenty of positioning bugs, which could be even worse in siege (since it's BETA :cool, so maybe your client thinks they are in one place, but their client shows them somewhere else all together. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised to hear that someone rezzed up in siege, and ended up in the wrong castle, lol.

If I found someone in my castle that had just gotten there accidentally, their actions would determine my reaction. If they were attempting to leave without having done anything or apologized and asked to either be let out or killed I'd let it slide. Accidents do happen.

But if they're sitting at a proc factory attacking it or even laying down FoTs they're getting reported. Accidents are one thing, but what we're getting at here is exploitative behavior.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444784"

...snip...
No players have the tools needed to prove what is a hack, or cheat during siege. Leave it to the GM's.

Incorrect. I know of at least one Internet Security Professional that has written tools to monitor the traffic received by his firewall. It *IS* possible to monitor every illegal command, i.e. hack. It *IS* also possible to monitor true teleporting by logging the X,Y location of every command, whether legal or illegal, to monitor players who teleport, for example, from their castle back to enemy crystals in milliseconds.

I also understand that this information was provided to Frogster several months ago, but they seem unwilling or unable to use it.

However I do understand why many players that do not read the hacker sites to learn how to identify the hacks, will STILL publicly claim that there are no hacks in siege, or that there are no indicators of others using hacks in siege. It is a combination of laziness, apathy, and ignorance. Ignorance can be corrected through study. That is your step one.

Quoted from "Whippingboy;444958"

whether legal or illegal

Would like to know the answer to this. If legal, would like those tools. >_>

Quoted from "Whippingboy;444958"

Incorrect. I know of at least one Internet Security Professional that has written tools to monitor the traffic received by his firewall. It *IS* possible to monitor every illegal command, i.e. hack. It *IS* also possible to monitor true teleporting by logging the X,Y location of every command, whether legal or illegal, to monitor players who teleport, for example, from their castle back to enemy crystals in milliseconds.

I also understand that this information was provided to Frogster several months ago, but they seem unwilling or unable to use it.

However I do understand why many players that do not read the hacker sites to learn how to identify the hacks, will STILL publicly claim that there are no hacks in siege, or that there are no indicators of others using hacks in siege. It is a combination of laziness, apathy, and ignorance. Ignorance can be corrected through study. That is your step one.

First.....I never once said there "wasn't hacks"!!!!!
Second your still looking at it from the perspective that a "player" can access the traffic in the game, which they can't legitimately.
A program is not all the tools to prove something such as this. For one to prove it you need access to the games inner workings from a moderator's perspective, of which players do not have.
For the record I'm not saying there isn't' people using these exploits. But as I mentioned earlier the word "hack" and "cheat" drop off peoples tongues in siege simply because you killed them.
If someone wants to spend all their time trying to prove that more then half the people accused of cheating are in fact not, then go ahead.
But I'm not suffering from "laziness, apathy, or ignorance" because I chose to play the game rather then find and research hack sites for the sole purpose of trying to police a "beta" aspect of a game.
Yes some people cheat. Yes some people Hack. But for every 10 accused, I bet you only find 1 or less that actually did.
My original message in this thread was to point out in a way that it is a slippery slope to start labelling a guild as something when you are a player and not in a position of authority within the game. A few will like it, but many more would not. It really won't change the outcome of any match because someone had the heads up their opponents are labelled a "cheater guild" it will only lead to retaliation and then you have 2 cheater guilds, and so, and so on, and so on.
I wouldn't even be surprised if FA were to chastise this idea because linking to a site in their forum that is labelling players/guilds as cheaters by name is against their rules. So why would they continue to allow the link to the site.

Just some things to think about before there is a whole slew of vigilantes out there. My recommendation.....keep your wonderful site unbiased.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444986"

wall of text

If frogster chooses too they can ask us to stop linking the t50 on the Runes of magic forums, they know how to contact us.. believe me.

the only people who should really fear this change to T50 are people who it will rightfully label as cheaters.


You've made your point crystal clear, as it stands we are going ahead as planed.. in fact its already been implemented and will stay as such until we feel it is no longer needed.

As my husband stated in his post there must be infallible proof of cheating, faces under the bridge, people fly/swim hacking, being in the castle when you very obviously shouldn't be.. you know the things that even frogster considers cheating/hacking/exploiting.

We aren't going to just label a guild as cheaters because Joe nobody comes and qqs on the forums.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;444986"

snip
Second your still looking at it from the perspective that a "player" can access the traffic in the game, which they can't legitimately.
snip

Incorrect. EVERY player's firewall has access to this traffic.

edit: And i stand by my statement about "laziness, apathy, or ignorance". If a player chooses to just play the game, then that does not apply to him. But for those who CONTINUE to publicly post the same false statements over and over again out of ignorance, even after being repeatedly corrected, then that statement definitely applies.

Okay, this is beginning to get rather out of hand. I am not going to delete any of the messages posted within the past day or so. I will, however, remind people here of the forum rules regarding the discussion of suspensions and bans (do not do this, even in reference to a friend or guildie who received a suspension/ban), and regarding other improper behavior in the forums.

The tools, ways, and means that the GMs use to investigate allegations of hacking or cheating in Guild Siege are for them to know. Swag has already posted in Announcements precisely what is to be done if you wish to report a player or guild of wrongdoing. You can find that announcement here: http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=57962.

I hope that I will not be forced to spend time editing or deleting messages in this thread, and having to ask one of the GMs to suspend people for repeated violations of the forum rules.

Your cooperation in this is appreciated.

I want to say sorry for my grammer english is not my first language. I just watched the videos of the cheaters and want to say TY to the creators of the top-50 SW guild to implement this.
I do not like it when people just throw around the words "your cheating" just because you get killed by somone better gear/skill wise. I am constantly telling my guild members not to say anything in vent about cheating unless it is an obvious cheat.
I love how you link the shortcut to your forums right near their name to take you straight to the video footage proving them to be cheaters. I had no idea someone could jump straight into your castle from the back. It actually explains alot of wied stuff that has happened to the guild i am in where someone is in our casle within the first few minutes taking out our processing factory, and all the gates are still up. Guess i will start running fraps throught siege from now on.
I love how the guy using the exploit to get into the castle is trying to defend himself. I mean really you have to be extreamly stupid or just plain ignorant to think that is not an exploit, lol maybe if you could by ladders and climb the walls or something then he could have a point. GJ everyone helping to combat the cheaters in siege.

Top 50 site and the Dawn Treaders network service interruption:

On g8/11/11 our domain name expired some time early in the early morning. We have re upped the domain name for another year but while go daddy does what they need to do any of the sites that are part of 'http://dawn-treaders.info' may be down for a few hours/rest of the day while godaddy does their thing.

Top50 *should* be back up and updated by tonight.
In the event that the domain has not refreshed its self and come back on line we will log the night's siege and update ASAP.

We are sorry for the inconvenience.