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Malignatus

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21

Tuesday, February 26th 2013, 8:46pm

Well, I'm not a guild leader, or even a guild officer. Far from either. But...

Running older content--HoS, ZS, DL, DoD, WA, RT, et cetera--for new guild members/players may not seem to be required for them to advance, but it actually is. Or it's certainly more important *now*, since XP/TP values for completing quests in those level ranges has once again been increased. Not to mention that teaching those new players how to interact successfully with your guildmates in instances *is* quite important. After all, there's no guarantee that we old, hoary, near-end and end-gamers are going to be around in the future.

(I'd tend to say that Origin, HotO, and KT are pretty much "one and done" instances for most people. Once you've completed the associated quests, there's no really good reason to go back into them repeatedly. The mem rewards are relatively minimal, and the gear drops are virtually worthless. "Real gearing" begins at lvl 55 and continues from there.)

It's called "passing the torch", "retaining the revealed wisdom", strats and tactics, or whatever you want to call it. Also, and in keeping with the theme of this thread, getting the memento rewards from the older content and *being able to get those rewards* on a regular, repeatable basis, goes along with future modding of better and higher-level gear, both boss drops and from shell pulls. (And yes, phirius shells become attainable and desirable at lvl 50, just below the serious "gearing" stage of a toon's life. But that's a completely different and tangentially-related subject.)

Don't nobody tell me that they don't farm DoD just for the quick mems. You'd be lying.

We (Fortuna) seem to be constantly recruiting new players with low and mid level characters (lvls 20-48, give or take), and helping these players advance their toons is important to us. Some of us, myself included, kind of like teaching new players some of the old tricks and, when possible in voice chat, passing along the ins-and-outs of strats and tactics for the older content can be a lot of fun. Getting the new players *through* that content without having them constantly faceplant is also fun and can be a bit of a challenge at times.

In this respect and agenda, I mostly agree with kokall. I'd rather pass along the knowledge I've gained--from being schooled through the older content instances--than a self-interest in selling along gear drops and whatnot to those new players. I have the ISS from those instances that I need anyway, and even OD pieces from the lvl 55 instances doesn't sell worth a damn in the AH anymore. (If it did, I wouldn't have to continually re-post a pair of OD Goddess Gloves in the AH, even though they're good enough to stat and last a Scout up to lvl 65 content. Maybe I should drop that idea and just post UD stuff, just for the ISS that can be ripped from it/them. Dunno.)

And, dammit. Some of the mid level instances are just funner than heck.

kokall

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Tuesday, February 26th 2013, 9:31pm

Well I disagree with Malignatus. I don't think old instances are required or that they are more important now. As for teaching people how to interact with guildmates, I don't see how the content you're running matters in that regard. As for passing the torch or retaining strats and tatics, there's nowhere in the rules that say it's a required thing. So what if some old strats are lost? But then again, are they really lost when there's so many posts and vids about them? Why not just archive that stuff and move on.

Again, I'm not saying never run the old stuff. I'm saying explain why it's not run as much. I'm saying let people know it's NOT required to progress. And it's NOT as important as it used to be.

Is it fun, sure. Is the xp better sure. Will you gain experience playing your class, absolutely sure. Is it required to progress absolutely NOT. But we're all entitled to our opinions.

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Tuesday, February 26th 2013, 11:32pm

its true that older content isnt needed to advance but thats a hard thing to expalin to someone who wants to get better and is lvl 55-62, all they hear is i dont want to help you, the best solution would be to find a guild more your speed some guilds just arent gung-ho about helping new players some are.

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Wednesday, February 27th 2013, 12:10am

Some people just won't listen to anyone but we can't let that stop us from trying. Everyone is different as it's been said many times. Finding a lower level guild with like minded people may be an option for some new players, however, I would still like them to know what's possible so they can make an informed decision; and so those who want to level up quick don't feel frustrated and quit the game!

Malignatus

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Wednesday, February 27th 2013, 7:57am

Quoted from "kokall;590364"

Well I disagree with Malignatus. I don't think old instances are required or that they are more important now. As for teaching people how to interact with guildmates, I don't see how the content you're running matters in that regard. As for passing the torch or retaining strats and tatics, there's nowhere in the rules that say it's a required thing. So what if some old strats are lost? But then again, are they really lost when there's so many posts and vids about them? Why not just archive that stuff and move on.

Again, I'm not saying never run the old stuff. I'm saying explain why it's not run as much. I'm saying let people know it's NOT required to progress. And it's NOT as important as it used to be.

Is it fun, sure. Is the xp better sure. Will you gain experience playing your class, absolutely sure. Is it required to progress absolutely NOT. But we're all entitled to our opinions.


I should have clarified when I said "required", and I definitely did *not* say they were either more or less "important" than newer content instances. Allow me to emphasize a few points:

1. XP/TP quest rewards for the zone *and* instance quests have been increased. While that may not seem to be important to a bored, old end-gamer such as yourself, it *is* important for new players who need the boosts now provided. There are "dead spots" that were either built in or that snuck in, and the XP/TP quest rewards are now far more useful. Less "quest lock" issues and grinding needed, and more TP for skill boosting.

2. You don't seem to think that teaching or training a new player in how to interact in instances *isn't* important? Go run HoS/ZS/DL with a bunch of level-appropriate noobs, don't instruct them on how to do the strats, then report back and let me know how well or not it went. Oh, and be level-appropriate yourself when you do it. How many party wipes are *you* willing to withstand?

3. Again, as an old, bored end-gamer, you don't think that the gear rewards from those instances are worthwhile, perhaps except for the ISS pulls from that gear? They may not be valuable *to you*, but I damn well guarantee they're valuable to the people who *need* them. And most of that gear is good for 8-10 levels above the nominal gear level, especially when reasonably OD. Not everyone can afford to buy Zeevex cards to get adventurer packs or buy golden hammers from the IS.

4. I never said "always run the old stuff". What I said is that for new players, and we *do* get a fair number of them, running the older stuff is *not* a bad idea at all. Not to mention that the mem rewards, while not as great as just farming KBN-H, are still pretty decent for their levels. (Again, KT is a PITA and a waste of time, once you've gotten the quests done there. The mem rewards aren't any better than RT and the gear drops suck pond scum. My opinion, yours may be different.)

And, as an example, we did a HoS run tonight. Most of us were there for grins, but there were at least three players who were just under the level "requirement" who not only learned how to do Syphadex, but did him in one take. That was amazing, so far as I was concerned. Each one managed to get killed precisely *once* in HoS, and we all had a blast.

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Wednesday, February 27th 2013, 3:39pm

Running old instances (solo and in groups) is the best way to learn how to use all your skills, burn and learn how to play your class depending on situation. I don't think that quest is major point to run them, but gear is. Getting some OD gear and not having problems to roll as most of the group is way out-geared is great. Same purple gear is great filler for some X-stating to get easier leveling and get to the cap.

It was easier back in days when you could pull shell gear L67 gear and when AH was filled with gear L55-L65. Now I am trying to get dagger for my alt, and at L61 best dagger on AH is crafted L55 dagger?!

So what I have to do is get that alt ZS/DL ready, have guild run it trough to gear it up so that questing trough TH-limo/lom is easier and I don't have to escort alt all the way to the level cap.

Malignatus

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Wednesday, February 27th 2013, 7:21pm

Quoted from "RoMage;590672"

Running old instances (solo and in groups) is the best way to learn how to use all your skills, burn and learn how to play your class depending on situation. I don't think that quest is major point to run them, but gear is. Getting some OD gear and not having problems to roll as most of the group is way out-geared is great. Same purple gear is great filler for some X-stating to get easier leveling and get to the cap.

It was easier back in days when you could pull shell gear L67 gear and when AH was filled with gear L55-L65. Now I am trying to get dagger for my alt, and at L61 best dagger on AH is crafted L55 dagger?!

So what I have to do is get that alt ZS/DL ready, have guild run it trough to gear it up so that questing trough TH-limo/lom is easier and I don't have to escort alt all the way to the level cap.


Best dagger @ lvl 61: http://www.runesdatabase.com/item/212614/thorn-of-yawaka

Might not be in the AH for you, but surely some RT farm runs would produce one. Other than that, Puppet Needle from WA.

1stfaze

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Thursday, February 28th 2013, 7:23pm

Quoted from "RoMage;590672"

Running old instances (solo and in groups) is the best way to learn how to use all your skills, burn and learn how to play your class depending on situation. I don't think that quest is major point to run them, but gear is. Getting some OD gear and not having problems to roll as most of the group is way out-geared is great. Same purple gear is great filler for some X-stating to get easier leveling and get to the cap.

It was easier back in days when you could pull shell gear L67 gear and when AH was filled with gear L55-L65. Now I am trying to get dagger for my alt, and at L61 best dagger on AH is crafted L55 dagger?!

So what I have to do is get that alt ZS/DL ready, have guild run it trough to gear it up so that questing trough TH-limo/lom is easier and I don't have to escort alt all the way to the level cap.


you coulda just dirty statted some gear(with tosh like blue stats) the most difficult thing u needed to get is a weapon, which could be farmed from DOD or have a guildy craft one, it doesnt have to be the best of the best its just got to get u to the end of questing. NO on is gonna learn2play thier class by running old content or questing itll come from research. and if they feel they just MUST run an instance to practice, tell em to go to kalin shrine, or NOm where the mobs arent too strong but where they can can test what they learned

kokall

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Friday, March 1st 2013, 5:59pm

Malignatus you said and I quote "Or it's certainly more important *now*" and ya you should of clarified what you meant by required if you don't actually mean required. lol

You're missing the whole point of what I'm saying. It's rather simple. The game HAS changed. That's a fact. There's a new quick leveling zone. That's a fact. There's amazing new stats and awesome FREE blue gear! Those are the facts.

I know because I've done it. I have stat rattings and I've compared dirty statted blue gear to my old crappy hos/dl gear. I've also completed all my lvl 70 to 72 questing in that dirty statted blue gear quite easily.

However, I did have a decent purple weapon. I also had housemaids, high level pet, pots, cards, titles, etc. Having all that along with my dirty statted blue gear really made questing a cakewalk.

So please try to understand exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying teach people how housemaids work, what pet to get, what pots to use, what food to use, what skills to use, and whatever else you know.

ALSO, make them aware of the new fast leveling and let them know about honor parties. ALSO make them aware that old purple gear is NOT required.

ALSO, most importantly, teach them that their weapon is the most important thing of all. Teach them the difference between dmg and attack. Make them understand that their weapon is almost their only source of dmg so having the best, heighest tier PURPLE weapon is what they should focus their efforts on getting, and NOT old gear that will last them a few days or weeks. ALSO, teach them about DURA and golden hammers vs OD weapons. When to invest and when not too because they'll outgrow it so quickly.

I have no problem with people running old stuff and grabbing a weapon quickly if possible but again it's not required. Another thing that's been added is good weapons for MEMENTOS! But there is also a ton of old cheap weapons around. Which reminds me also let people know about the Trade channel!!! OMG So many still don't realize they can find great deals there. Yes it can be annoying with the quit and part messages but if you find one deal or sell one thing using it, that's worth the small annoyance imo.

Now you say HoS gets you mems but I'd rather bring new players to DoD, GCE, KBNE, for super fast mem farming, along with stats and gear. But that's with the goal of getting codex food, getting mems for a decent weapon, and then moving on!

People have limited time to play this game. Spending 2 hours waiting on 12 people to run HoS everyday is not helping people progress quickly. If that's their goal of course.

If you're running for fun and you have the time, giving new players access to some fast easy gear is a nice thing. Some quick mems are nice as well. But it boils down to speed and availabilty!!!

And that's the key word. Availability.

That's the whole reason for this thread. To make people understand what other people are doing and why it's harder now to get runs for older content.

Yes we may have lost some players BUT it's also all the changes in the game that have made getting those runs more difficult. Making people understand this and taking the time to educate them will go such a long way to preventing them from getting extremely frustrated.

As for the issue of learning your class. People just love to use that agruement but it makes no sense as many have pointed out. You learn by research and you learn by being taught or by experimenting on stuff solo where you can take the time to check out your combat logs and see what works the best. I know people who've run tons of HoS and DL, but still had no clue that strong stims existed. I've been amazed so often about the things people don't know after playing for so long.

And who's gona learn about strong stims when you got a lvl 77 burn down stuff for you in HoS. But I'm not saying that's a bad thing either. But it can hurt more than it helps if you don't take time to actually repeat the same stuff over and over that you've told 50 other people and educate person after person after person. It sucks but that's what helps the most.

I try to always do it in guild chat so incase someone missed something along the way others will realize it. Some joke, I hope, that I'm gona give people the talk again, but taking the time to pass on information is so important I think. Old obsolete instance strats not so much. But the occasional reminder of how hard we had it might make new players thankful of how easy they got it now.

Anyways, I hope most people get what I'm saying. I know there will always be people with different opinions but I hope most realize the game has changed and it can help if they accept that. Hopefully, some new players learn some stuff from all the things I've mentioned.

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Friday, March 1st 2013, 8:15pm

Kind of confused here...why does it matter to you, kokall, if someone runs old instances? That's their choice. It doesn't affect you in any way. And telling people to buy all their leveling weapons off the AH or grind a ton of mentos for the overpriced mem weapons? Really?

I see people selling RT weapons for 20m or so, DL/ZS weapons sometimes are cheap, but sometimes people are stupid and charge 5-10m for them. Why is spending that sort of money better for a new 55 than having their generous guild run them through HoS/DL/ZS for gear?

And expecting people to get weapons from mem vendors is rather stupid when you advocate not running any lower level instances. So how, exactly, is a newbie that has no gear going to get mems? Getting dragged through DoD? GCE? RT? How is that any different than getting dragged through HoS/DL/ZS for weapons instead of having to mem farm for every weapon upgrade? Are you really under the impression that getting dragged through (and oneshot on every boss) RT will teach newbies how to burn bosses properly? As far as I know, people can't practice buffs when they're dead...but, maybe I'm missing something.

In any case, a decent guild will run newbies through instances for starter gear, starter weapons, and answer any questions they have about attack/damage, mdef/pdef, buffing, rotations, etc. Helping them get lower level weapons doesn't mean those newbies will be stupid and clueless. You don't learn any of that by yourself without gear, and you shouldn't be expected to learn it yourself anyway (not everyone reads forums, and a lot of this stuff isn't mentioned in-game). Unless your guild is terribly unfriendly and unhelpful, that is...which, in that case, I'd advise newbies to find a new guild.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

RoMage

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Friday, March 1st 2013, 9:11pm

Quoted from "Malignatus;590703"

Best dagger @ lvl 61: http://www.runesdatabase.com/item/212614/thorn-of-yawaka

Might not be in the AH for you, but surely some RT farm runs would produce one. Other than that, Puppet Needle from WA.


Working to get alt trough TH, SJF and into NJF. This alt already was for some other purpose all the way to limo, I might just run it trough RT a bit and farm dagger as you said. Thanks. I got Shar's documents and it will be atuned for ZS/DL runs as well.


Quoted from "1stfaze;590831"

you coulda just dirty statted some gear(with tosh like blue stats) the most difficult thing u needed to get is a weapon, which could be farmed from DOD or have a guildy craft one, it doesnt have to be the best of the best its just got to get u to the end of questing. NO on is gonna learn2play thier class by running old content or questing itll come from research. and if they feel they just MUST run an instance to practice, tell em to go to kalin shrine, or NOm where the mobs arent too strong but where they can can test what they learned


I was using some old quest gear and some HOS gear (even from hos easy). Just as you notice, dagger is biggest problem, and me being cheap and not wanting to pay 10+ mil for L55 + dagger (except crafter are really cheap, but not as good as instance one - crafting has been always broken in game)

As for gear, I had 2 clean OD pieces from HOS, and got generous help from mr. pink hat with 2-stat stones and X stats for rogue to dirty stat it as he has done on his alts. It works great, 20K HP now.

Don't like to hijack the tread, but this is really it - I rather have fun with alt and run it trough low level instance (wither in duo with main or with guild party) then spend gold on getting finished gear. It is more fun to do it yourself.

Actually, I would like it more to run once/twice with the same level toons, as it used to be done, but it is close to impossible to find a group, and not to mention of the group with correct class setup for instance @ level. (tank, healers and DPS)

kokall

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Saturday, March 2nd 2013, 12:34am

Quoted from "effervescent;591064"

Kind of confused here...why does it matter to you, kokall, if someone runs old instances? That's their choice. It doesn't affect you in any way. And telling people to buy all their leveling weapons off the AH or grind a ton of mentos for the overpriced mem weapons? Really?


Are you serious? Where did I say it's not their choice? Where did I tell people to buy all their weapons off the AH? And ya it matters to me that people get frustrated and quit the game.

I'm saying educate people. Maybe try reading my posts again.

kokall

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Saturday, March 2nd 2013, 1:08am

Quoted from "effervescent;591064"

I see people selling RT weapons for 20m or so, DL/ZS weapons sometimes are cheap, but sometimes people are stupid and charge 5-10m for them. Why is spending that sort of money better for a new 55 than having their generous guild run them through HoS/DL/ZS for gear?


Advising new players on weapon purchases, so they don't throw their gold away on overpriced weapons, is another good example how you can help people. And I never said it was better to buy a weapon. You're just making stuff up!!! I just finished saying grab a HoS weapon if possible!! Just don't worry about the rest of the gear because you can progress using dirty gear with NEW stats.

Some people are in small guilds, some play late or early in the morning, some have little time to play at all. I've seen people frustrated so many times because they can't get runs, for those people there is an easy way to progres as I've explained throughout this thread.

Other people just get stuck running HoS over and over because it's what the guild does. Some guilds just don't educate enough imo.

So lets be very clear, there's two seperate problems that get people frustrated. Basically, one is not being able to find runs at all and one is guilds stuck in the past and not educating their new players how the game has changed.

Also, DoD/GCE are obviously way better for mem farming. I can help a guildy get 400 mems an hour and they can grab food and a weapon in just a few hours versus days or weeks of running HoS. Think about that, hours vs days or even weeks!!! And.. once they're level 70+, they can easily duo DoD quickly so it's much much easier to get or create runs!!! And they can easily farm 700 or 1400 mems when they take breaks from questing.

Plus, as I've said, farming mems and events is what I'm already doing! It's what I've been given to do by the game designers! It makes no sense to run HoS to get people crappy gear when I can help them quicker by bringing them fast mem farming with me. But we're also not just talking about ME!!! I'm explaining why it's hard to pull people away from their events and their mem farming and what they can do to progress and join in.

AND AGAIN, it's not that I never drag the occasional person through quickly for fun and some purples they can dirty mod easy but that's more for my entertainment than their quick progress!!

Read my posts again and don't infer your crap into what I'm saying, maybe that will help you understand.

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Saturday, March 2nd 2013, 1:46am

I'm actually getting tired of reading some of the nonsense people are saying so this might be my last post.

But just to address the whole weapon issue. You don't need that perfect RT dagger. You don't need that GCHM staff to progress. Sure it's nice to grab them if you can get a run but don't let the lack of people running old stuff hold you back!!

If you can't get a good dagger, work with what you can get!!! Maybe you need an extra weapon tier level or two to compensate. Maybe you have to use hero pots and grassland nonstop. Maybe mod a few more pieces of gear. Maybe buy a few old clean modded pieces that are super cheap. Oh wait everything is overpriced all the time. Trust me there are crazy savings in old gear for the right price. Maybe clean mod some wings since there's no level difference on them. But maybe you need to farm 4 stacks of dogmeat to buy a crappy purple weapon that's tiered up. Maybe it's 20 stacks of dogmeat because you want something that will last longer and make it easier to quest, that's up to you. I'm not saying it's the best option but it's an option!!! Do what it takes so you can keep QUESTING!

AND don't become a modding addict!!! LOL The less time you spend on gearing the more time you'll have for QUESTING. Stop gearing when you have enough to quest easy! And even when it gets a little tough keep going! Don't die though. Never die. :)

Don't get stuck running the same thing over and over, except for mem farming of course when you need a break from questing.

OF COURSE, IF QUICK PROGRESSION IS NOT YOUR PRIORITY, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU!!! If you're just frustrated because you can't find like minded people to waste their time with you, just having fun hopping around in HoS all day, there's not much I can do about that. In general I'm trying to help people who want to progress quickly and are having a hard time because they can't find runs and explain to them why they can't find runs even in decent size guilds with very nice helpful people!!!

Some will obviously want to take this opportunity to state how great their guild is and completely miss the point. Have at it. I'm done. :)

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Saturday, March 2nd 2013, 2:53pm

< dog meats farms when bored :3

Whenever I do though, I see so many new players that stay in that zone (not knowing how to get to wc ect) and they farm dog meat as well. The difference between me and them is that while I'm farming to have some extra gold, they are farming for hours to buy semi-upgraded gear for their level (55-60). Their guilds haven't told them/they weren't listening when told that getting 50-60k hp is a waste of time at that level unless you are planning on running things appropriate to your level without being dragged through.
I agree with kokall in that educating your guildies on the right way to gear and helping them (knowing that they won't ditch the guild once they get geared) to do it will help your guild move up in the instance chain. So many guilds get stuck before gch/rt too easily because they still run hos everyday. (you DO NOT need to complete a new player's set of gear before they can quest)

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Saturday, March 2nd 2013, 10:36pm

Quoted from "kokall;591116"

Advising new players on weapon purchases, so they don't throw their gold away on overpriced weapons, is another good example how you can help people. And I never said it was better to buy a weapon. You're just making stuff up!!! I just finished saying grab a HoS weapon if possible!!

Read my posts again and don't infer your crap into what I'm saying, maybe that will help you understand.


Quoted from "kokall;591043"



I have no problem with people running old stuff and grabbing a weapon quickly if possible but again it's not required. Another thing that's been added is good weapons for MEMENTOS! But there is also a ton of old cheap weapons around. Which reminds me also let people know about the Trade channel!!! OMG So many still don't realize they can find great deals there.


Sorry, you didn't say what now? Maybe you need to go back and re-read your posts, because all I see is someone that nerdrages about other guilds running their guildmates through easy instances for starter gear, instead of expecting them to buy everything.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.

kokall

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Sunday, March 3rd 2013, 6:32am

Another person who can't read great! Can't even read what he's quoting!!!! Try quoting a single thing I said that actually supports your claims you ignorant person.

You see what you want to see. That's the real problem. Get some glasses.

I just can't believe you're quoting something that is the total oppostie of what you're claiming.

You quote "I never said it was better" and then say I expect everyone to buy everything.

I can't believe you're able to turn on your computer. Seriously.

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Sunday, March 3rd 2013, 11:27am

Quoted from "effervescent;591216"

Sorry, you didn't say what now? Maybe you need to go back and re-read your posts, because all I see is someone that nerdrages about other guilds running their guildmates through easy instances for starter gear, instead of expecting them to buy everything.


yah u did misinterpret what was said. this thread was rage free please stay on topic no need to attack people

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Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 5:48pm

Quoted from "kokall;590256"

I don't want to discourage people from running old content but I really want them to understand they don't need it to progress. I don't want them to get frustrated thinking they absolutely need to run it, but can't find people to go with them. Then they may just think the game is dead and quit....

Most people have their own agendas in this game, but in my experience guild leaders try to control things way too much. Many are self-appointed with something to prove I guess. I've been frustrated with guild leaders agendas for a long time and their unfair loot rule practices but that's a whole other topic!!! I shouldn't even bring it up!

But my point is that guild leaders MIGHT do things they feel will keep players happy even though it may not be what's best for them to progress. They MIGHT feel that as long as they're running something they're keeping players entertained. Or, they MIGHT just get stuck in their habbits and they may not even realize themselves how they may be slowing down people's progress. Even Trav who brought it up realizes that being a guild leader may affect his perspective.

I don't claim to know all guild leaders and all their agendas. But I know my agenda is to educate people and help them understand all of these things. Obviously my agenda, other then actually just feeling good about helping people, is to have more people in the market for stuff I sell. :) If even half of all new players get stuck at level 50 or 60, and can't use the event or dailies I farm to sell, then I'm not helping myself by not educating them.

So even I have an agenda. :) But I hope that it won't distract people and I hope they'll realize I'm honest and I'm trying to help them for mostly unselfish reasons, if that's possible. But I will completely understand if someone says they want to take it slow and experience the old content, it's their choice. But maybe at some point, if they're educated, when the time comes, they'll be able to progress when they have had their fill of the older content.

Anyways, I hope I don't get ripped a new one by all the guild leaders. lol I guess if they feel the need to respond to that part of my message then they prolly really identify with it eh?


Yes you certainly do not know all guild leaders. I'm the guild leader of Evil Empires and our guild is run by a team of people (Leadership Council). I have final say in how things run but I use the input of my leadership team. The guild is not mine but ours which is why we've done so well over the past three years.

Guild Leaders have added responsibility than the regular players. We have to intervene on personality clashes or when our guildies are perceived to have done someone wrong. We work to keep all of our guildies happy wherever possible and to find creative ways to balance the end-gamers' needs vs the developing player's needs.

Before you rip any guild leaders on Osha - get to know some of them.

Enjoy

Savagebeast M/S/R
GL Evil Empires
Osha

Ward

Beginner

Posts: 27

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Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 6:38pm

Quoted from "ssavage;592663"

Yes you certainly do not know all guild leaders. I'm the guild leader of Evil Empires and our guild is run by a team of people (Leadership Council). I have final say in how things run but I use the input of my leadership team. The guild is not mine but ours which is why we've done so well over the past three years.

Guild Leaders have added responsibility than the regular players. We have to intervene on personality clashes or when our guildies are perceived to have done someone wrong. We work to keep all of our guildies happy wherever possible and to find creative ways to balance the end-gamers' needs vs the developing player's needs.

Before you rip any guild leaders on Osha - get to know some of them.

Enjoy

Savagebeast M/S/R
GL Evil Empires
Osha


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