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Tuulikki

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Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 9:31pm

Well...this thread is...interesting. Has it occurred to many of those posting that you are playing an MMORPG - Massivly MULTIPLAYER online RPG? Lots of thoughts have been expressed on how to solo play - farm mems, shells and eojs, buy gear off AH if you want/need it and of course skip old content or just run it for fun but let's not even consider playing it at level (secondary/terciary class?) and teach new players (and far too many end game players) how not to suck in an instance. Tanks learn by tanking, healers by healing and dps learn by going into a fight that isn't over before they have a chance to use only 1-2 abilities and never have to bother to worry about positioning, moving out of the poison/fire or basically any strategy at all besides burn the boss fast as you can and loot.

New players come to an MMORPG expecting community. This is something RoM is severely lacking. Yes, there needs to be new/better content, but since that's not happening any time soon, get involved and run stuff instead of spouting off in world how you are "sooo bored". There is no need to rush to end game, but if that is your preferred way, more power to you. But skipping content just because there is no perceived gear gain is just wrong headed. Take some people into the instance with you - let them actually work to down a boss (i.e. don't pop your cd's every boss) and try to enjoy playing as a group bound by a common goal for a change.

I realize it may be a tough concept to wrap your mind around but think of how much better people will be a seige and instance progression if they are used to working as a group. Here's another "mind blowing" concept - there are only a few guilds on all the servers who are able to complete all the content on hard mode. The reason they can do it is because they know how to work as a group and use strategies instead of constantly trying to bug bosses and burn everything.

Advocating solo play and the presence of way too many solo players has become a huge part of the severe lack of players logging in each day. If you want solo play go play an RPG or your xbox/playstation - not an MMORPG.

1stfaze

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Thursday, March 14th 2013, 12:50am

Quoted from "Tuulikki;592699"

Well...this thread is...interesting. Has it occurred to many of those posting that you are playing an MMORPG - Massivly MULTIPLAYER online RPG? Lots of thoughts have been expressed on how to solo play - farm mems, shells and eojs, buy gear off AH if you want/need it and of course skip old content or just run it for fun but let's not even consider playing it at level (secondary/terciary class?) and teach new players (and far too many end game players) how not to suck in an instance. Tanks learn by tanking, healers by healing and dps learn by going into a fight that isn't over before they have a chance to use only 1-2 abilities and never have to bother to worry about positioning, moving out of the poison/fire or basically any strategy at all besides burn the boss fast as you can and loot.

New players come to an MMORPG expecting community. This is something RoM is severely lacking. Yes, there needs to be new/better content, but since that's not happening any time soon, get involved and run stuff instead of spouting off in world how you are "sooo bored". There is no need to rush to end game, but if that is your preferred way, more power to you. But skipping content just because there is no perceived gear gain is just wrong headed. Take some people into the instance with you - let them actually work to down a boss (i.e. don't pop your cd's every boss) and try to enjoy playing as a group bound by a common goal for a change.

I realize it may be a tough concept to wrap your mind around but think of how much better people will be a seige and instance progression if they are used to working as a group. Here's another "mind blowing" concept - there are only a few guilds on all the servers who are able to complete all the content on hard mode. The reason they can do it is because they know how to work as a group and use strategies instead of constantly trying to bug bosses and burn everything.

Advocating solo play and the presence of way too many solo players has become a huge part of the severe lack of players logging in each day. If you want solo play go play an RPG or your xbox/playstation - not an MMORPG.


first off (not to be mean) you contradict yourself in this post. but im not gonna make that the focus of mine instead im gonna address the community issue. Most if not all the solo players or "people actually grinding" are in fact apart of guilds. somewhere along the way they have realized that you cant depend so heavily on others to reach endgame or whatever their goal is. They know its an mmorpg but that doesn't mean you need a community to bottle feed you or that you want to bottle feed someone else. memento's, shell's, eoj's, these are enablers to help new players catch up faster than before as it stands now at lvl 55 you can solo things i never could at 55 with less than half the effort. the "bored" aren't world shouting to get the attention of the lvl 43 who wants you to run them through ks or begging for quest help, they are calling out to the people around their skill level to do something thats challenging to them. instead of coming down on the old players who have spammed these old instances to the point that they are bored with them, how about introducing players to a way to help themselves when they cant get the runs they are looking for, they will progress to the "endgame status" much faster than going the old route. if they want a community or that wants to run what they want to. they are gonna have to look around for it.

P.s. the players that can clear endgame content had to do alot of solo grindage to get to a point where they can do the instance
by no means did the guild run each and every player through an instance enough times to get everyone the gear and stats they need to be viable. the game takes alot of solo effort to be endgame.

Tuulikki

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Thursday, March 14th 2013, 2:28am

Not to be rude, but perhaps you are missing the point I was attempting to make. I'm advocating group play instead of advocating solo play. Nowhere in my post did I mention running people through instances to get gear and stats. I specifically spoke to the lack of preparing lower level players for any meaningful end game instance due to not learning how to play their class, in a role, as part of a group prior to end game. Tanks should not start learning how to tank in KBNH (this is a hyperbole, please don't take this out of context).

I don't advocating "bottle feeding" anyone. Why would I? Gearing and statting right now is easier than ever. Even new players don't particularly want the gear and stats from earlier instances except for set skills and skins. Decent quest blue gear and X stats make earlier instance gear almost irrelevant. But again, it's not about the gear from these instances, it's about team building.

Now, I realize that many end game players have run instances like RT and HoS so much that the thought of going in there is abhorrent. Having 3 toons at level 77 I have done more than my share of those runs myself. But while there is an in game mechanic to help new players to group with others of the same level, it is rarely if ever used. In a perfect world, these party boards would span across multiple servers and gain a higher level of use. As it is, they do not. How then are lower level players able to get into group runs at level and learn their classes and roles if not from others who are most likely higher level than they are? Spam world for people to run at level? Is that happening on your sever happening so often that that's a viable option?

Finally, we will have to agree to disagree on your p.s. Many end game players have been playing awhile and ran earlier instances frequently when it was end game or else there were a lot of extremely lucky players who got a lot of stats and complete sets of OD gear in just a few runs. Yes, end game takes a lot of work - some of it solo work. But advocating solo play over group play does new players a disservice imo.

1stfaze

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Thursday, March 14th 2013, 7:03am

Quoted from "Tuulikki;592713"



Finally, we will have to agree to disagree on your p.s. Many end game players have been playing awhile and ran earlier instances frequently when it was end game or else there were a lot of extremely lucky players who got a lot of stats and complete sets of OD gear in just a few runs. Yes, end game takes a lot of work - some of it solo work. But advocating solo play over group play does new players a disservice imo.


true you need both for endgame

kokall

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Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 4:24pm

Quoted from "ssavage;592663"

Yes you certainly do not know all guild leaders. I'm the guild leader of Evil Empires and our guild is run by a team of people (Leadership Council). I have final say in how things run but I use the input of my leadership team. The guild is not mine but ours which is why we've done so well over the past three years.

Guild Leaders have added responsibility than the regular players. We have to intervene on personality clashes or when our guildies are perceived to have done someone wrong. We work to keep all of our guildies happy wherever possible and to find creative ways to balance the end-gamers' needs vs the developing player's needs.

Before you rip any guild leaders on Osha - get to know some of them.

Enjoy

Savagebeast M/S/R
GL Evil Empires
Osha


As I said, it's from my experience. But you just admited your agenda is to balance the needs of two player groups. I'm not saying it's a bad agenda. The point was everyone has an agenda and often those agendas create problems.

Peronsally, I prefer absolute fairness over "balance". But that's my preference and my agenda.

PS I run with your guildies often, some nice people in EE. It's not the point. :)

kokall

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46

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 4:29pm

Again, I'm not advocating solo play or group play, I'm trying to educate people so they don't get frustrated and quit. If they realize that many people are naturally taking the easy options to progress, and if they realize there's ways they can progress solo, then I hope less will quit and progress solo if needed.

Also the whole idea that a person can't learn in KBNH or higher level instances seems a bit ridiculous to me. Why not? Who's making this rule? I don't mind a new tank with little experience learning in higher instances, even in KBNH!

camagic

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Monday, April 15th 2013, 9:18pm

I heard in a guild meeting that ROM is no longer the same game as when we started playing it. It is absolutely ridiculous to do the "old" zones to level up, even with the new adjusted quest in midgame. It is real nice that we no longer have the level gaps in the 56-64 range. True that coo/xav to let you solo level to about 51/50 in one weekend, but has anyone tried the old zones. It still takes foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever. There is enough content to trudge thru with the magicial reconstruction line that players should be able to learn their combo.

Gear is necessary for end game content. And getting gear is going to be tougher once the current circulation of 55 and 60 stated purples dries up. Players are going to have to rely on shell gear, and since the 65/67 stuff is no longer available, there needs to be something else to fill that gap, because you cant just step into an instance to get the gear needed, if you have crap gear.
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Tuesday, April 16th 2013, 12:39am

People would have no problems doing the older zones if CoO was restricted to the 3rd/2nd class, you might wanna change classes so I guess keeping xaveria for all classes would be nice, but imo heffner camp should be barred off for 1st classes :P

How the flow of the game changed imo really screwed things up for me...maybe have something like C9 where gear doesn't really matter and that is mostly skill and use that for questing so that people can't use their op gear (weapons I understand :P) and adjust mobs so that it will be balanced. Add more skills to combos that can only be used for questing.
A bunch of other things floating around in my head as well :P

Because now rom is just focused towards gear...once you have gear...game sucks. It takes a lot of monotomous work to get endgame, players don't like that and once they get there, it gets tooo easy. With the current way skills/combos are organized in the rom you don't need any skill (pvp-wise)

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Tuesday, April 16th 2013, 12:49am

CoO/Xaviera is the way the old zones should've been changed to be.
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RoMunited

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Tuesday, April 16th 2013, 12:54am

Quoted from "Borella;597698"

CoO/Xaviera is the way the old zones should've been changed to be.


that would have benefits and disadvantages

Benefits
Easy to Level other classes 1-55
Enjoy more content than just doing CoO/Xaveria

Disadvantages
Too Easy :P
By lvl 45 it should start being hard for me to level, but that (a few levels from the start of Xaveria) is the easist part of the game. It should be where I have to start being able to use my skills in effective combos to survive with ease. If there were more players and the gearing process didn't start yet people would be getting better at their classes and endgame would require skill :P

1stfaze

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Tuesday, April 16th 2013, 8:49am

Quoted from "RoMunited;597700"

that would have benefits and disadvantages

Benefits
Easy to Level other classes 1-55
Enjoy more content than just doing CoO/Xaveria

Disadvantages
Too Easy :P
By lvl 45 it should start being hard for me to level, but that (a few levels from the start of Xaveria) is the easist part of the game. It should be where I have to start being able to use my skills in effective combos to survive with ease. If there were more players and the gearing process didn't start yet people would be getting better at their classes and endgame would require skill :P


45 is a bit much. 65 maybe, with new lvl caps always around the corner they had to make it easier to get xp especially those early levels. CoO was created for more than just the 3rd class. its a chance for new players to catch up at least in lvl.

Now a slightly off topic rant:

Tbh i dont know what you want when you say you want to use skill to quest when ur lvl 45 or so lol. that makes no sense why make questing as difficult as instance mobs? You dont and shouldnt need ridiculous combos to quest, tbh the only skill u need should be for pvp and even then it shouldnt be all skill based alot of it should be gear based.

Now let me explain before you "endgamers are the devil RAGE RAGE" rage at me, your ability to get gear is in direct correlation with how well you play Rom given your play style. Whether it be throwing money at the game till it works, or hustling up money via ah even grinding out instances with a group of buds until you can clear instances. all of these ways can get you the endgame gear you desire (granted throwing money at the game is fastest). the real test in rom isnt if you know your class well enough to pvp (since some classes just arent made for pvp WARRIORS) or if you can clear instances .its how well you reach and maintain endgame status (endgame meaning fully geared, and well versed in all of Roms ways)

all in all To be the best at Rom questing is just a small part of it.

kokall

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Tuesday, April 16th 2013, 9:16pm

I've done CoO/Xav a few times and it does get harder as you progress. At one point I couldn't really continue without making a few dirty modded items. I mean, I could, but it would have been risky and slow going that's for sure. Last thing you want to do is die and have to make up XP/TP. So when you pretty much get face punched to death you know it's time to stat some gear up. :)

But the point I really want to make is that newer stats are about double the older stats that we used to farm in DoD, and way more than the plain green stats I had to use to quest. It don't matter if you're making low lvl dirty gear for questing in CoO or adding new stats to your lvl 65 blues to quest in TB, the result is much better gear and easy questing.

The free lvl 65 blues I got were very close if not better than my lvl 55/57 purples I had from ZS/DL/DoD with old DoD stats on them. I added 2 new stats to several pieces, using matching dirty 2 stat fusion stones at 50k to 100k each, and ended up with much better gear then my old 55/57 purples. They may not have the crit rate needed to burn down a boss but it was enough power, defense and HP to keep questing easily in TB and AKR. Even the blue weapons are decent, but of course I had a tier 8 purple, because I know a good weapon is my number one priority.

Also everyone should know that there are dirty blue 74 to 77 gear drops that most sell in the AH for about 50k to 60k each which make tier 5 stones!!! So you can easily afford to tier up your weapon to at least tier 6 or 7. To make 3 tier 7 dirty mana stones all you need is 40 charges, 27 fusion stones at 2k each = 54k, plus 50k x27 which is 1.35mil. So about 1.4mil total and 40 charges that you can get free with 400 phirus tokens for 3 tier 7 mana stones. Or 1/3 that for for 3 tier 6 mana stones.

It's important that new players realize that the newer yellow X stats are extremely cheap because they drop alot off regular mobs who drop bags in the newest zones. ALSO they drop off every KNB easy boss that is killed!!! They range from 50k to 500k but they drop so much that guildies often just give them away to new guildies who need them.

But even without help from guildies, you can take all the gold you made questing, and all the gold you made from vendering crap drops, and that alone will buy you 9 cheaper stats nobody wants, and 9 3 stat dirty fusion stones for 10k each, to dirty up 3 pcs of gear at lvl 35. And then 3 more by lvl 45. And then 3 more by lvl 50. The key to it is having the Advance Auction House addon so you can filter fusion stones to find matching ones. However, I do recommend you first get the best, highest tier, weapon that you can and then use what's left to dirty mod. And anything after that to get hero pots if you're high enough level to use them.

Also, when you make dirty gear I think it's smart to stat very low lvl white gear. The stats are so huge that they make up for the tiny amounts of defense you get on lvl 40 blue gear for example. Plus, many things like capes, accesories, wings, etc, give very little or no defense at lower levels.

There are a few reasons to stat low lvl gear. With more levels able to use it, it's much easier to sell later on. Or, you can give it to a second toon you make just for farming blend runes or activate runes.

While on the subject, everyone should know that a low lvl toon, like a level 30 mage, with 6 to 10 dirty modded pieces of gear, who is capable of killing 4 to 6 lvls above, will get 3 blend runes per kill instead of just one! So you can find spots like Ystra Lab, or the cyclops in Ystra, bloodstain pond in weeping coast, pirates in ravenfell, etc, where you can farm runes fast and make a million gold an hour easy. So a few hours of farming gets you many pieces of gear done. I used to farm stacks and stacks of Moxa just to get horrible crappy dirty green statted gear!!!!

Anyways, keep helping new players. I know repeating the same stuff sucks but they need to know so much info that it's hard to learn it all on their own wihtout getting frustrated. If you see someone who obviously needs help just ask them if they know about X stats, CoO, etc. and go from there.

Lachel

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Thursday, July 18th 2013, 6:26am

I had to skip a few posts in this thread before I forgot what I wanted to say, but this has been an interesting thread to read.

A little background: I played RoM from launch to sometime after HotO and HoS came out. I was with a end-game oriented guild that had HotO on farm while HoS was a bit less solid due to lack of numbers. Anyway, I was very well acquainted with the game's systems. I ended up leaving because people wanted me to have a T9 staff (I had a T8) it just wasn't feasible to upgrade without investing a lot of money into the game then.

Four years later, RoM is still one of my favorite MMOs due to its class system. So when a friend of mine wanted to play her first MMO, I recommended this one over some other, unknown game she had found. We started fresh on Osha and I'm worried that it's going to be hard to experience the game's areas and quest "properly" as I did in 2009 because things have changed so much. For example, if no one's in Ystra Highlands, how will we clear out all those pesky MA quests?

Some of you mentioned Coast of Opportunity and quickly statting up your gear -- when is that option really available to new players? Are my friend and I expected to go here to level, or is it honestly just intended as a place to level your 3rd class? Will we really find no one to group with in the earlier areas?

More importantly, how many of you feel that spamming dailies in CoO is a bad idea for (essentially) brand new players who are looking to play casually (and free) but still want to get close to end game and experience their class combination? What would be a better course of action?
Lachel (Osha) - Veritas - 80/55/55 Mage/Scout/Druid

Inferiority

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Thursday, July 18th 2013, 9:34am

Quoted from "Lachel"

Four years later, RoM is still one of my favorite MMOs due to its class system. So when a friend of mine wanted to play her first MMO, I recommended this one over some other, unknown game she had found. We started fresh on Osha and I'm worried that it's going to be hard to experience the game's areas and quest "properly" as I did in 2009 because things have changed so much. For example, if no one's in Ystra Highlands, how will we clear out all those pesky MA quests?

Higher level players are usually quite willing to help if you don't mind not doing the instances with an 'at-level' party. There's actually a hidden title for completing the MA quest line at level 38 just like the hidden title in Forsaken Abbey for completing it below level 25.


Quoted from "Lachel"

Some of you mentioned Coast of Opportunity and quickly statting up your gear -- when is that option really available to new players? Are my friend and I expected to go here to level, or is it honestly just intended as a place to level your 3rd class? Will we really find no one to group with in the earlier areas?

Coast of Opportunity is designed with the 3rd class in mind, but what you use it for is completely up to you. You'll gain a "Transport to Heffner Camp" skill when you reach 20/20 and the Varanas Snoop will offer the transport destination as well.


Quoted from "Lachel"

More importantly, how many of you feel that spamming dailies in CoO is a bad idea for (essentially) brand new players who are looking to play casually (and free) but still want to get close to end game and experience their class combination? What would be a better course of action?

Your choice of dailies is completely up to - don't ever let any =one tell you any different. It's your choice how you play your character.


I play on Osha too, btw - I'll PM you the character name and feel free to ask for help if you ever need anything.
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Thursday, July 18th 2013, 4:13pm

Quoted from "chefhannibal"

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/orig…_necromancy.jpg
If posting, on topic, in the 4th highest thread in Osha General is necromancy, then just call me a Lich. (I did check the post date before replying. I just thought April 2013 was pretty recent when compared to some other dates I've seen around here.)
Lachel (Osha) - Veritas - 80/55/55 Mage/Scout/Druid

chefhannibal

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Thursday, July 18th 2013, 4:26pm

ya, i spose 3 months isnt that long. I hope your friend decides the game to be enjoyable. best of luck to you.
​

kokall

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Tuesday, July 30th 2013, 3:06pm

"Some of you mentioned Coast of Opportunity and quickly statting up your gear -- when is that option really available to new players? "

Statting up your gear can be done as soon as you find an income source and make a bit of gold. There's so many sources. You can buy or capture a pet and have it craft mats to sell. You can farm blend runes and activate runes. You can make food or potions to sell. You can sell cards you find. Plus you get gold from questing.

THE KEY is knowing how to stat gear cheap. You can make 10 pcs of gear for at little as 90k and 4 charges EACH (note it takes only 4 days of dailies to get 40 charges with phirus tokens, so 3 days if you count the 10 free you get at the start). Of course they won't be great. At that price you may only get lvl XIV and XV green stats (20k each in AH on lvl 78 greens that make tier 5s). But those are huge compared to what I had access to when I started out. In my day a green Physique X cost 700k+ so I couldn't even afford that till I was lvl 50. So I was dirty statting with lvl VIII greens for examples and it took me 3 months to get passed Ystra zone. Anyways, if you can afford 400k per piece, now you can buy 3 yellow XI stats at about 50 to 100k each stat because they are so abundant and drop off mobs in high lvl zones so endgamers there just slap them in AH for next to nothing.

THE KEY is having the AH addon to filter fusion stone results and getting 3 matching stones. Try not to pay more than 10k for a 3 stat stone and 50k for a 2 stat stone. Another option is to just save up 1million and buy a ton of 5k fusion stones where you'll get a bunch of 2 stat stones. It's the bottom right option from the NPC fusion stone vendor that you want to use. It says guaranteed Stamina I stat and 2 random, but really it's not always 2 random sometimes it's only 1 random stat added. Understanding this is essential.

My rough estimate is that it cost about 50k per 2 stat stone at the most so you can even make money selling the 2 stat stones for 90k each and dumping all the 3 stat stones or selling those too. It's a service you're providing for those who don't want to fill their bags and bank with fusion stones.

Why 2 stat stones you ask? Because if the gear you have has a stat on it you can still add 3 stats for a total of 6. They're also easier to match up since there are less variations. You can also use 6 matching ones to get 4 good XI's stats on one piece. That kind of power at low level makes questing a breeze. And really it allows you to self power level if you have over 10 pcs of gear done because you can kill mobs 8 lvls above you and that gets you tons of xp. Of course a good weapon is important. Pots, buffs, etc too.

I've written other guides, many people have written guides, but these are the basics you really need. If you hate reading forums then ask people in game. Show them what you've done and ask if it's right and if you did ok. They may point out that you should only use certain stats for you rcombo. They may point out that you should of used overdura gear and they'll explain what that is. But if you at least do the basics you'll cruise through low lvls.

NOTE: If you buy diasmond and sell them, you could get hundreds of millions in gold!!! 2k diasmonds = ~ 200mil at the moment. It's crazy. DON'T SPEND IT ALL! LOL If you dont' want to make gear yourself, only spend 15 to 20mil for 10 dirty pcs of gear or say 30mil max for 15 pcs. After that just keep your weapon upgraded, don't touch your gear till lvl 65 or so when you can use free blue gear and add 3 stats to each pcs using 3 puries each (or 2 using dirty 2 stat stones). That will get you to max level easy if you have a decent tiered/plussed purple weapon along with it. Save your dias and gold for later. You'll need it.

One final thing, get the statrating addon!!! You'll be able to compare gear easy to what you're wearing. You'll see how your dirty statted gear with 4 stats is actually better than many old statted purple items with old stats on it or not much different and not worth the cost most of the time. You'll see that you can use 4 statted gear all the way to lvl 65 because it's as powerful. It only lacks crit rate, which you don't need for questing.

P.S. I just reread the thread and wow, great job moderators for getting rid of the crap. Very well done, i'm impressed.

This post has been edited 14 times, last edit by "kokall" (Jul 30th 2013, 4:21pm)

spacehistory

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Wednesday, July 31st 2013, 3:44pm

I've enjoyed this thread but I have to say, I would like to run some of the old content and am seeing I'll have to a lot of stuff alone. My guild does help with runs I can't do on occasion and when they do a goblin run, they won't let me come even though I'd like to see what its like. They say you can't do it before level 50. Its quite frustrating to do only Tempest Heights and Siege with them, when you'd like to try other things. I keep trying and one day I won't be asking for help. As I will do everything on my own since it is so hard to get people to do much. I realize the game has changed, but there is no feeling of community like when I played from beginning to the start of the Janoost Forest.

I would say over 50% of my guild has no time to help newer players and thats fine its their choice. While maybe I should look for a new guild where can you find one? You can post till the cows come home and no one replies to you in the forum.

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Thursday, August 1st 2013, 1:05am

@kokall - Very good advice. At this point I'm 61/52/51 and have already done most of what you suggested. I can't wait to get a look at the Lv65 blues you mentioned, though. I could use an upgrade as I made most of this gear around Lv40.

@spacehistory - "You can post till the cows come home and no one replies to you in the forum." The first post I saw from you was last night and those threads have been replied to. You should respond to those kind folks and you might get some help. I myself try to help out lower level folks even though I'm not the most powerful person. We just need more information from you, like a character name so we can message you in game...
Lachel (Osha) - Veritas - 80/55/55 Mage/Scout/Druid