Runes of Magic US / AU

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Sunday, July 4th 2010, 10:20pm

(reserved)

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3

Monday, July 5th 2010, 12:03am

Raising aptitude will raise the assist numbers, so having a high aptitude first doesnt matter, you can get your base stats and then raise the aptitude. That will raise your assist number by (almost) the percentage of the aptitude gain. So if you go from 70 aptitude to 71 aptitude and had a 15 assist, then that assist will be somewhere around 15.15. (+1%) But more than likely it will be something like 15.23 because it adds a little bit more than that percetage for some reason.

I put some of it in the other post.

For my purple Fire egg I got these base value numbers. Going from level 6 to level 7. Numbers in parentheses are the standard growth rates for that attribute at that color.

(0)Strength 2.89 - 2.89
(0)Dexterity 5.80 - 5.80
(3)Stamina 7.27-8.42
(5) Intel 10.84-12.74
(4) Wisdom 13.04-14.56

Aptitude is 76.00

The results I got dont work with the formula you have listed there. I think I can level one more pet today and can throw those numbers up, that is a blue egg, not a purple.

Also another pretty important thing is that leveling your pets from scratch gives you 61 TP per level. So while you can start out with a level 20 pets if you want and get the immediate benefits of a level 20 pets, if you level a pet from 1 to 20 you'll get 1159 TP. So instead of 1000 that the 20 out of the egg has in TP you'll have 2159 on one you raised. Not sure if TP is a bug or not. Seems like it, or maybe it is a way for them to try and get people to level up pets rather than start with high level ones.

Because if you are farming/grinding gold eggs and going that route, it takes 60 golden eggs to get 500 TP, which is equal to raising one skill.

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failkaito

Beginner

4

Monday, July 5th 2010, 1:19am

Quoted from "rodarin;300016"

Raising aptitude will raise the assist numbers, so having a high aptitude first doesnt matter, you can get your base stats and then raise the aptitude. That will raise your assist number by (almost) the percentage of the aptitude gain. So if you go from 70 aptitude to 71 aptitude and had a 15 assist, then that assist will be somewhere around 15.15. (+1%) But more than likely it will be something like 15.23 because it adds a little bit more than that percetage for some reason.

...? My point is that, before you level your pet, better to get a higher aptitude so that the base values increase are actually worth the effort in trying to level your pet. This topic and the other topic, is not about how to convert base value, aptitude, and others into the assist value. All my tests on assist value are very random and show no consistency in order to extract a formula of any kind. Topic is meant to at least resolve the issue of leveling a pet v. raising aptitude w/ lower level merges.

Quoted

(0)Strength 2.89 - 2.89
(0)Dexterity 5.80 - 5.80
(3)Stamina 7.27-8.42
(5) Intel 10.84-12.74
(4) Wisdom 13.04-14.56

Aptitude is 76.00

The results I got dont work with the formula you have listed there. I think I can level one more pet today and can throw those numbers up, that is a blue egg, not a purple.

7.27 + (3 / 2) * (76 / 100) = 8.41
10.84 + (5 / 2) * (76 / 100) = 12.74
13.04 + (4 / 2) * (76 / 100) = 14.56

Where is the formula wrong?

Quoted

Also another pretty important thing is that leveling your pets from scratch gives you 61 TP per level. So while you can start out with a level 20 pets if you want and get the immediate benefits of a level 20 pets, if you level a pet from 1 to 20 you'll get 1159 TP. So instead of 1000 that the 20 out of the egg has in TP you'll have 2159 on one you raised. Not sure if TP is a bug or not. Seems like it, or maybe it is a way for them to try and get people to level up pets rather than start with high level ones.

Because if you are farming/grinding gold eggs and going that route, it takes 60 golden eggs to get 500 TP, which is equal to raising one skill.

The TP maximum on your pet, really doesn't matter too much atm. Only time it'll matter is when, a. you have all your passives maxed and b. you have your aptitude maxed. Even then, using the 2 Golden Egg potion increase your maximum anyways. My pet has only leveled once, but now has 3086 TP max.

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5

Monday, July 5th 2010, 2:54am

I have leveled quite a few pets and havent seen the values increase at all due to a higher aptitude. All I ever see aptitude effecting is the Assist numbers. Similar to how loyalty effects them. So I dont think if a 100 aptitude pet is levelled alongside a 75 aptitude pet the 100 aptitude pet wont have any more assist than the 75 does once it hits 100. I think they will both be the same, assuming they are identically leveled.

Because I dont see how you can ascertain that leveling with a higher Aptitude will end up with better numbers versus the same pet with a lower aptitude. because from what I can see the aptitude didnt change. And the Holy Pet 'test' is more or less a guess from what I can see since it wil take quite a bit of time to level a pet even from 29 to 30 to even see if in fact it would make a difference. Since holy pets have higher growth rates that is probably the difference not anything to do with aptitude now or then.

But I may level a couple identical pets with differing Aptitude to see. But I wont do it until the price drops a little bit. But taking a couple level 1s and 3 on level merges will get them close to level 4, so one day basically to proof it out.

I also never saw the value numbers increase when I had 100/100 loyalty versus say 65/100. I dont see how it effects the values at all just the assist numbers. I only mention loyalty because it directly effects the Assist numbers.

Only time I see values change is when you merge a pet with a higher value number than the saved pet. Be that attribute based or a rune pet egg.

Talent points are pretty important if you want to level up your passive skills. Some pets have as many as 8, thats 4000 TP just for +1 in all of them, if you have a level 15 pet (which isnt hard to do) you can get +2 so thats 8000 talent points, it takes 40000 training points to trade for that much. At 50 training per merge thats a lot of merges. And thats only to get to +16 however you want to spread it. So a level 20 pet out of the egg is going to have 1159 less Talent points to spend, or 2 skill ups, and some change left over than an egg that you started leveling at 1 to get to 20.

Now I see how the formula is, its A + [(B/C)*(D/E)]= F You need to multiply the two numbers first before you add them to the old value.

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klucko

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6

Monday, July 5th 2010, 3:37am

k2 ftw!

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7

Monday, July 5th 2010, 4:03am

Quoted from "rodarin;300060"

Talent points are pretty important if you want to level up your passive skills. Some pets have as many as 8, thats 4000 TP just for +1 in all of them, if you have a level 15 pet (which isnt hard to do) you can get +2 so thats 8000 talent points, it takes 40000 training points to trade for that much. At 50 training per merge thats a lot of merges. And thats only to get to +16 however you want to spread it. So a level 20 pet out of the egg is going to have 1159 less Talent points to spend, or 2 skill ups, and some change left over than an egg that you started leveling at 1 to get to 20.

All pets have the same (8ish?) passives. Most people just haven't clicked on the box that says "Cannot be learned" so the ones that require higher levels aren't showing up for 'em.

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8

Monday, July 5th 2010, 5:27am

Yeah I tested it out and aptitude does effect the value. And the formula you have works,although it 'evens itself out" as in it rounds down on one level and then rounds up on the next so that it makes 2 values with .5 up to the whole. That might be where your anomoly comes in.

Now what I did discover is that different types of animal have very different values even with the same attributes and growth sequence.

For example the two pets I used to test it were a slug and a behru Both water, both with

Str 0
Dex 0
Sta 1
Intel 2
Wis 3

Just like all water pets have.

But the Base values were way different.

Slug was

Str 1
Dex 0
Sta 4
Intel 4
Wis 4

Behru was

Str 2
Dex 3
Sta 1
Intel 4
Wis 2

So even though the Behru has zero growth in dexterity it Assist more to it that it does Stamina in which it has a 1 growth rate. Obviously as it levels that will change but more things to think about.

That is probably the next step, taking every animal and seeing what their base values are. Because while growth rate is important, if you have a high growth rate on a pet type with very low stat for that particular value then it is counter productive.

But I am glad I thought you were wrong so I had to test it and make sure

.

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9

Monday, July 5th 2010, 5:39am

Quoted from "GnatB;300073"

All pets have the same (8ish?) passives. Most people just haven't clicked on the box that says "Cannot be learned" so the ones that require higher levels aren't showing up for 'em.

Was in the zone....

Passives are level dependent. So as long as a pet is level 10 he will have at least 8 passive skills. I sort of worded that wrong when I typed it before.

So yeah 8 passive skills by the time they hit level 10.

Whether or not more will become available I am not sure. There arent anymore on the "cannot" learn list once you hit 10, so not now anyway.

But TP is pretty scarce, and levelling up pets looks like the way to go, unless it is a bug and the high level pets right out of the egg shold be staring out with more TP and not just the same 1000 all pets start out with.

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failkaito

Beginner

10

Monday, July 5th 2010, 6:36am

Quoted

Talent points are pretty important if you want to level up your passive skills. Some pets have as many as 8, thats 4000 TP just for +1 in all of them, if you have a level 15 pet (which isnt hard to do) you can get +2 so thats 8000 talent points, it takes 40000 training points to trade for that much. At 50 training per merge thats a lot of merges. And thats only to get to +16 however you want to spread it. So a level 20 pet out of the egg is going to have 1159 less Talent points to spend, or 2 skill ups, and some change left over than an egg that you started leveling at 1 to get to 20.

Main source of TP is training, not leveling. When I leveled my 29 pet to 30, I gained 86 TP. However, by using the Training -> TP potions, I have gained over 2K max TP. Leveling your pet 19 levels, you'd probably gain more training to out-do any TP gain you get by strict leveling.

Quoted

Now I see how the formula is, its A + [(B/C)*(D/E)]= F You need to multiply the two numbers first before you add them to the old value.

PEMDAS. Of course its multiply first.

Quoted

Yeah I tested it out and aptitude does effect the value. And the formula you have works,although it 'evens itself out" as in it rounds down on one level and then rounds up on the next so that it makes 2 values with .5 up to the whole. That might be where your anomoly comes in.

I never called it an anomaly. I already stated the 1.775 explains one value for one level up and another value for second level up.

Quoted

Now what I did discover is that different types of animal have very different values even with the same attributes and growth sequence.

The growth value only determines a relative pattern for base stats when you spawn a pet. I've said this many times. Anytime a pet is spawned, the 5 stats are randomly generated. The stats you see could have been exactly the other way if the random numgen was seeded the other way.

Quoted

So even though the Behru has zero growth in dexterity it Assist more to it that it does Stamina in which it has a 1 growth rate. Obviously as it levels that will change but more things to think about.

The Berhu has a higher assist value because it has a higher base value. Assist is a directly a function of: base, loyalty, nourishment, aptitude. Assist is indirectly affected by growth value. Growth value acts as a factor for both the way that loyalty and aptitude affect assist.

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Trainee

11

Monday, July 5th 2010, 7:27am

Quoted from "failkaito;300100"

Main source of TP is training, not leveling. When I leveled my 29 pet to 30, I gained 86 TP. However, by using the Training -> TP potions, I have gained over 2K max TP. Leveling your pet 19 levels, you'd probably gain more training to out-do any TP gain you get by strict leveling.

Only if you're farming (or buying) absolutely massive quantities of golden eggs. And I'd definitely avoid buying them ATM. May lose your pet.

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johnsdea005

Beginner

Posts: 2

12

Monday, July 5th 2010, 10:03am

So Leo, how do you personally gain a bunch of Training to get the tp? Do you merge3 pets into 1, then 3 more done like that into your pet you wish to level? or what? It costs a lot to get 2500 Training (What's required for 500 tp) in eggs

.

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13

Monday, July 5th 2010, 11:45am

Quoted from "johnsdea005;300135"

So Leo, how do you personally gain a bunch of Training to get the tp? Do you merge3 pets into 1, then 3 more done like that into your pet you wish to level? or what? It costs a lot to get 2500 Training (What's required for 500 tp) in eggs .

It's "only" 50 golden eggs though, +10 for the 5 potions, or 60.

'Course, in retrospect, 200 golden eggs fed directly into his pet would probably have leveled it more than once, so you're probably right about chain combining pets. That's still an awefully expensive prospect, but certainly explains why so many runics are all being bought by the same person of so many different levels. (may not be you, but it's probably somebody doing that same idea.. somebody whose also buying Golden Eggs.. careful there whomever)

Anyhoo, that's 25 runics for a passive. At the current prices I'm seein', that's about 1.4 mil per passive.

It's be 50 non-runics, but that would be far trickier to manage, as they'd still all have to be the same attribute as whatever pet you're working on leveling.

edit: 'Course, I guess I coulda just checked your sig and seen that it *was* you...

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14

Monday, July 5th 2010, 2:55pm

Quoted from "GnatB;300155"

It's "only" 50 golden eggs though, +10 for the 5 potions, or 60.

'Course, in retrospect, 200 golden eggs fed directly into his pet would probably have leveled it more than once, so you're probably right about chain combining pets. That's still an awefully expensive prospect, but certainly explains why so many runics are all being bought by the same person of so many different levels. (may not be you, but it's probably somebody doing that same idea.. somebody whose also buying Golden Eggs.. careful there whomever)

Anyhoo, that's 25 runics for a passive. At the current prices I'm seein', that's about 1.4 mil per passive.

It's be 50 non-runics, but that would be far trickier to manage, as they'd still all have to be the same attribute as whatever pet you're working on leveling.

edit: 'Course, I guess I coulda just checked your sig and seen that it *was* you...

Its 60 eggs actually, you need 2 to trade in for the potions so an extra 10 above feeding.

But yeah if you have a 'main' pet and merge 3 beside it and then merge that pet into the main you can get 9 pets worth of merges and training points per day. Once we get more slots it will be a little easier to level training points.

Quoted

Main source of TP is training, not leveling. When I leveled my 29 pet to 30, I gained 86 TP. However, by using the Training -> TP potions, I have gained over 2K max TP. Leveling your pet 19 levels, you'd probably gain more training to out-do any TP gain you get by strict leveling.

By training I assume you mean merging (without leveling).

But it is interesting to see that TP gets larger as you level. You got 86 TP directly from leveling from 29-30. I have leveled quite a few pets highest being from 6 to 7 and still only got 61 per level up.

But 2000 TP is 10000 training points, even multi training thats seems like a lot with just 3 slots. Unless youre feeding them golden eggs on top of it. Or there is some other trick to gaiing training points that I dont see.

edit, ahh never mind you can flip flop the eggs around and not necessarily have to merge your first 3 with the main pet. So you merge 3 level 3 into a level 4, then introduce a level 5 and then merge that level 4 into the 5. Then merge 2 more low levels into the 5 and the go back the other way. Could have a perpetual ladder as long as that pet doesnt get higher than the main.

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twobits

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Posts: 13

15

Monday, July 5th 2010, 3:17pm

Quoted from "rodarin;300187"

But it is interesting to see that TP gets larger as you level. You got 86 TP directly from leveling from 29-30. I have leveled quite a few pets highest being from 6 to 7 and still only got 61 per level up.
.

I just leveled a pet from 4 to 5 and got 74 TP, so some other factor then level or just level must affect the amount of TP gain on level up.

--
http://box.net/RoM

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16

Monday, July 5th 2010, 3:23pm

Quoted from "twobits;300192"

I just leveled a pet from 4 to 5 and got 74 TP, so some other factor then level or just level must affect the amount of TP gain on level up.

Hmm might be loyalty based. I havent bought the potions to raise loyalty above the base level on most of my stuff. But we have 61, 74, and 86 as possible TP gains per level. So looks like the typical round up on one and round down on the other scenario. Will check today and see it if makes a difference.

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Jillari

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Posts: 3

17

Monday, July 5th 2010, 3:57pm

Quoted from "rodarin;300187"

But yeah if you have a 'main' pet and merge 3 beside it and then merge that pet into the main you can get 9 pets worth of merges and training points per day. Once we get more slots it will be a little easier to level training points.

Good thinking, 99! Three per day is just too slow.

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Brooklynn24

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Location: Canada

Occupation: Scout/Rogue

18

Monday, July 5th 2010, 5:58pm

k2 ftw!

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19

Monday, July 5th 2010, 6:24pm

Quoted from "Jillari;300197"

Good thinking, 99! Three per day is just too slow.

it is actually perpetual if you only have one pet you are using, you can trade the merges back and forth as long as they are equal or less value. I was too busy trying to level them up to pay attention to that. I was just merging 3 into one 3 times. So if my pet was level 6 I would throw a level 6 in and merge 3 others into him to get 200 training points then merge with my 'main' pet for the 1000 XP and the 200 Training points. But as long as you can get enough pets at the right levels you can merge every pet there is. With 4 slots you can have 2 constant pets and still do this. So that 4th slot is going to be important.

Right now it is pretty costly though, but I am sure eggs will be under 1K shortly, and then maybe go back up once fewer people continue to trap.

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