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  • "douglas22888" started this thread

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1

Friday, September 18th 2015, 6:30pm

Make normal/easy instance difficulties more worth running

edit: added some new things in bold that I realize I didn't clarify in this post

So right now from what I can see, most people don't care to run stuff on easy or normal due to them not giving certain stats (dex or str/pa for example is only found on normal last boss at a very low chance I've heard)
I feel the difficulties drops should be setup more like how things are for older instances that got easy mode added when it was first introduced (where the items dropped with different stats than normal, that were also not as good as normal)
for an example of what could be done I'll use Grotto, instead of dropping 165 stat in all difficulties with a chance of 180 orange at last boss HM instead have it like this
Easy: drop stats comparable to the normal mode of the previous instance, with a chance for a stat equivalent to what would exist in normal mode off last boss, all drops would/could come dirty (if all would, then I'd say if a normal stat drops, it should have a small chance at clean), also gear would be specific to easy mode
Normal: drop stats comparable to the hard mode of the previous instance, with a chance for a stat equivalent to what exists in hard mode off last boss, these would drop clean as they normally do, would have some potentially useful gear drops, possibly a set
Hard: this would be the same as it currently is under these circumstances

this could allow for easy to drop more useful stats, and allow normal to be worth doing (since they'd have there own tier of stats then they could be made to drop more stat/pa)

also on instance topic, it could also be nice if the design of bosses and content didn't highly discourage statting stam for dps classes
and would be nice if there were more bosses that had mechanics that kept them from being just burned down right away (like Yinajo), or at least fights designed in a way that they don't need to be burned down asap to be able to succeed

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "douglas22888" (Sep 25th 2015, 8:16pm) with the following reason: To better clarify things


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Friday, September 18th 2015, 6:41pm

been suggested many times on all points, but still, agreed and +1.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

  • "douglas22888" started this thread

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 7:08pm

been suggested many times on all points, but still, agreed and +1.


tbh I find it surprising that they keep changing how they do things a lot as time goes on or creating things they end up never reusing

4

Friday, September 18th 2015, 8:57pm

I think they should follow the RT model and add another level in between normal and hard modes because the difference between the two is really extreme and also distribute the pieces of sets to different levels instead of everything just being in hardmode, just like in RT. I don't believe they should give orange stats in normal modes though because there has to be some premium incentive to try hard modes.

Other things:

1. make hard modes 18 man - would help with current low population state.

2. mentos need to give good stats again - nerfing mentos was the worst decision ever made by ROM imo.

  • "douglas22888" started this thread

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 9:12pm

I think they should follow the RT model and add another level in between normal and hard modes because the difference between the two is really extreme and also distribute the pieces of sets to different levels instead of everything just being in hardmode, just like in RT. I don't believe they should give orange stats in normal modes though because there has to be some premium incentive to try hard modes.

Other things:

1. make hard modes 18 man - would help with current low population state.

2. mentos need to give good stats again - nerfing mentos was the worst decision ever made by ROM imo.


I never actually said orange stats, if you misunderstood what I meant was if normal was say 150 stat, then the last boss would have a chance to drop the 165 stat that any hard boss can drop
ya maybe bringing back the RT metal/gem difficulty could be a good thing, it's one of the kinds of things I was referencing with my last post when I mentioned stuff they created yet never reused
I haven't used mentos a ton of times yet so I have not much I can say on that part

and personally, while the idea of a bigger raid could be interesting, I think it might be best to wait and see if population goes back up cause idk how easy/hard it could be to get a group for it, and mind you if it's too hard to get a group the content will go mostly untouched like VN was back at 50 cap (due to rec size of 150 players and the fact it was buggy enough to cause a server crash at the time)

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 9:59pm

yes yes make 18 man raids so they can 6 man with 12 alts now :P
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Friday, September 18th 2015, 10:04pm

Actually I like that Idea, would work for Artemis for the time being having 2 dps partys of 4, with 2 buffer slots swapping with 3rd group. Would finally allow 8 DPS 1 Healer 1 Tank to actually be able to go into a instance and be successful again.

(Could even allow for a party to be both physical and magical rather focusing on 1!!!) woot-woot
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8

Friday, September 18th 2015, 10:28pm

The idea that we need half the party to be buffers/debuffers just sucks so bad. I guess this is what we have to do with a declining population.

But in a guild where we do have our strong dps, then a pretty large drop to our midgamers, it absolutely blows to tell the guy that they are being replaced by an alt that presses 1 button. That freaking blows. Either a) he gets more motivated to get better at the game, or b) he decides that this is horsesh*t and quits.

Luckily, the latter isn't the option people are taking, but the whole idea of buffers....ugh....its depressing


its just so funny when this 18 man instance is brought up, o hey just more room for buffers :lol:

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 10:39pm

It doesn't really have to do with declining population, just bad game/instance design that currently buffs from certain classes are more effective than another dps player. It does suck telling someone that in order for the run to go well they need to be replaced by a alt...

However it also provides opportunity for new players to get in runs by creating and playing those alts in runs, in order to gather stats/gear for their desired main character.
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Friday, September 18th 2015, 11:00pm

from a point of view independent of actual instance clearing requirements, lowering the buff cap and/or just making less buffs stack would go a ways to helping the problem.

i know most people would hate it, but imo, it seems like the best way to go about fixing the problem. this is also coming from a scout, arguably a class whose viability used to be entirely due to buff stacking.


another possible solution would be to just limit the # targets "group" buffs hit, and/or allow them to hit pets/npcs. that way it would be more of a "hey, cool, i got X buff, time for some serious dps!". instead of "oh, i'm at buff cap and lost W,Y,Z buffs, now we wipe because i'm one of 4 dps and can't do enough damage"
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 11:52pm

Yes, and that would be find, if they also adjusted the hardmode instances to a viable strat ^.^ Because burns would not be possible.
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12

Saturday, September 19th 2015, 12:54am

Yes, and that would be find, if they also adjusted the hardmode instances to a viable strat ^.^ Because burns would not be possible.
This. The only thing changing which buffs stack/adjusting buff limit would do right now is make endgame instances impossible while doing nothing to help anyone.
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Saturday, September 19th 2015, 1:10am

Yes, and that would be find, if they also adjusted the hardmode instances to a viable strat ^.^ Because burns would not be possible.

100% agree.

with the instances how they currently are, i don't see any way besides the current meta of buff stacking/nuke to be possible.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

14

Saturday, September 19th 2015, 2:07am

Instances used to be easy enough that you could take 6 pros and 6 mediocre ppl and clear just fine.

Each instance released gets higher and higher defense values that you cant really gear enough for to do the above same.
The 6 mediocre noobs got replaced with alts.

But yea make normal worth running and at least theres something to do for like half a day
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Saturday, September 19th 2015, 3:42am

Yes! We can finally add more alts. :D
Like D/R debuff alt. :D
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16

Saturday, September 19th 2015, 4:38pm

Aren't these two separate points?

* the structure could be changed to make alts less useful (tactics requiring real players erc.); but this could be done irrespective of whether it's a 12 or 18 ppl raid

* change from 12 to 18 would help irrespective of whether ppl would use extra slots for players or alts; it would depend on who is available, but would be great for both. And probably would end up with a mixture: maybe 1-2 extra alts and 4 dpses, possibly in a process of gearing up.

I don't think you can use alts as a solid argument against 18.

The main problem (imho) with current setup is that it's on the bleeding edge, with no margin. You cannot replace a serious dps for someome new and gearing up. You cannot replace an alt either.

Hm becomes an 18 ppl raid? I really cannot see any downside of this. At least there will be some challange for the druid (when was the last theread about healer statting and gear, lol?)
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Saturday, September 19th 2015, 9:18pm

wing of space in itemshop would just kill runs by buffalts, evenmore then it is already.
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18

Saturday, September 19th 2015, 10:52pm

I don't believe RW would raise the cap to 18 without making the instances harder. It's just not something they've ever shown they're willing/capable of doing. Instances have begun to jump leaps and bounds in difficulty every cap.
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Saturday, September 19th 2015, 11:10pm

They should make strats part of the option, not current meta = burn or die. Before we had both options and it was awesome, op ppl could burn through all but less op groups can easily do it. Make it so area hit does not 1 hit all no matter what, make it doable without immune foods, then no/less alts for debuffs would be a possibility.
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Monday, September 21st 2015, 1:37am

I was thinking about this earlier today.. but one way to make easy, normal & hard mode fit together would be to have hard mode be the culmination of the Instance.

1. Easy mode = Stats ; Allow all of the stat combinations to be farmable on not-so-great gear in a dirty configuration. Rarely, have a clean drop. Last boss always has a clean stat drop that's completely random.
2. Normal mode = Gear recipes & mats ; mobs have a chance to drop recipes and minor mats. Bosses drop gear used in the recipes to create hard mode equivalent gear. All stats available and generally clean. Random chance that the piece is dirty statted.
3. Hard mode = Gear + stats + really good stats ; Hard Mode gear, always clean stats & chance of Orange stat drop instead of yellow. Last boss always drops Orange stat.

There would be 2 types of recipes in Normal mode:
1. Preparation Recipe: Converts the piece of equipment into a recipe mat for the hard mode piece.
2. HM Equipmnt Recipe: Converts farmable mats into the HM piece with random stats. 90% dirty, 10% clean

Heck, food & alchemy Recipes could drop as well.

The idea here is that you would farm easy mode for stats, Normal mode for recipes & mats to make HM gear for that Instance & HM to show how elite you are by farming the gear/stats ( +chance for Orange stats ).