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[6.2.0.xxxx] Holy Chains and Shackles of light

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Optomistic

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21

Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 4:03pm

K/S is Fine! Nerf K/M!
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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 4:13pm

Quite honestly, I've been on the giving and receiving end of these two skills, and they've worked just fine. People pointed out that they wanted to see what you were seeing and you basically told them "screw you, I know it's not working for me, I don't need to test it again". A test to see exactly what you're seeing is the only way to even begin to fix this "bug", and since 2 out of some odd knights have a problem with it, that's a very loose term to use.

I suggest you produce some video and/or screenshots of their use, with some detailed lists of stats from both parties, along with gear checks that may be able to cancel off stun effects. Things can be resisted or taken off by certain equipment. Without this, we're just going to assume you're blowing smoke, much like this thread is turning into.

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Auros

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 4:21pm

Another thing to try. Delete said skills from your action bar, go back to your skill book and drag drop back onto action bar
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Cike

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24

Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 4:44pm

also, make sure you are in range of shackles.

try checking holy chains on undead vs. non-undead vs. players, see if there is a difference.
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BlankMinded

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:02pm

Players CANNOT remove holy chains with anything other then damage. Period. lvl 50 or 87 pvp gloves don't work, warrior skill undefeatable king doesn't work, w/k ignore pain doesn't work, rogue escape does't work, it can't be cleansed. If you are magic immune it won't affect you iirc, but that's it. This is why holy chains from k/s gets complained about so much in siege war -- as a player, you literally can't do anything about it unless someone/something else hits you.

If it is being removed instantly, its either b/c of damage being inflicted, or a glitch. And for the rest of us to know that it is the latter, and not the former, we'd need to see some video or first hand experience. Also note that if you use it multiple times on one person, the duration shortens to the point where it has a 1s effect, or simply will say "miss" on the target.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BlankMinded" (Jun 17th 2015, 5:21pm)

Earagorn

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:11pm

@Auros/Cike

Both good ideas and have tried them. The removing from the skill bar was one of the first things I did as was suggested by saito, then if that didn't work try a reinstall and such.

As for the range I have used both of the skills in immediate proximity and all the way to about 80-100 range. same effect regardless.

I just ahd a thought, based on the idiosyncrasies of rom such as they are, anyone think a hot(yes I know not dmg) might have the same effect for holy chains? ie. spell or even a healing herb as such? little bit out there but you never know

Cike

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27

Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:15pm

for shackles, are you testing on a priest or a druid? the higher mresist might have an effect.

if so, i'd try testing on normal mobs of all different levels/types.

@blank: just because no player skill can remove the effect, do we know that an npc/mob skills can't?
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mages should stack dex. word.

BlankMinded

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:20pm

Idk...I will edit previous post. Also, big guards in siege should be immune.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "BlankMinded" (Jun 17th 2015, 5:26pm)

Cike

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:26pm

i'm not sure either, but it is an interesting thought.

out of sheer curiosity, does blood arrow remove holy chains?
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

Earagorn

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:26pm

I've tried on pretty much every player I catch in siege, regardless of class lol. Since it's a light bases skill I would assume light resistance would have a negative effect on the use of it on some players yeah.

Also have tried on the guards as well, no dice on either. though I can see the holy chains not working on them but shackles you would think would at least have some effect as they can use it repeatedly. who knows on that one though.



@blankminded

Holy chains does the same thing regardless of how many times over the course I have tried it, it's a literal flash on/off

Shackles never even hits anyone regardless of mob/npc/player

Cike

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:32pm

Quoted from "Earagorn"

Since it's a light bases skill I would assume light resistance would have a negative effect on the use of it on some players yeah.

there are two distinct "resistances". general magical resistance and elemental resistance. AFAIK, elemental resistance only reduces received elemental damage by your resist amount(utterly useless, but thats a topic for another thread).

general magical resistance is essentially the magical version of dodge, in the fact that there is a direct macc vs. mresist roll, determining if the skill even lands or not. CC and debuff skills are often magical in nature, and go through this roll. for example, rogues have trouble with shadow prison on healers(or at least used to), do to it getting resisted due to the copious amount of mresist the healers have from wisdom compared to the nonexistent macc of rogues.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

Earagorn

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32

Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 5:36pm

Yes I was aware of that, also seeing as how the general magical resistance and the elemental resistance are on separate tables it would make sense that way.

though a light based skill vs mres instead of elemental resist would seem to have a lesser effect at resisting then the specific, though once again rom is special

though I have also tried both skills against casters and non casters of varying lvls and npc/s and mobs.

I will try the HoT thing to see if that does something, though with the way it works now it's going to be difficult to judge

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 9:25pm

I am curious about the heal over time removal theory. Most of the time my holy chains stick to their target with no problem, but on some rare occasions I have had my holy chains flash onto a target (player) and then flash off a moment later with nary a bit of damage being received. The targets are usually mages so it's possible that one of their elites may have an effect.

@Cike I will also try using Holy Chains on a target with blood arrow buff active when I return later today and let you know how that works

*Edit*
@Earagorn Out of curiosity, what is your Light Resistance? If it's at 0 and you have the time, try to find a +all resistance stat or something that boosts Light resistance, dirty stat that onto a trash piece of gear, equip said gear, try casting Holy Chains on something, take the gear off, and try casting Holy Chains on another target.


There was a bug some time ago, where if your elemental resistance was nonexistant, certain skills that you cast associated with said resistance would have no effect or would be resisted by your target. Strange eh?


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ghostlord" (Jun 17th 2015, 9:38pm)

Cike

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34

Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 9:35pm

would an HP shield make the target immune to the effect? i'm thinking electrostatic charge or wave armor.

also: @ ghost: would it be possible to pop BA to get out of holy chains while stuck? or could you run with BA up to essentially have immunity to holy chains(if it breaks it)?
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

Ghostlord

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 9:54pm

I know for a fact that you can't pop blood arrow while Holy Chained as it counts as a regular buff usage skill/item with them derned hidden 0.00000001 cast times. I'm about to head in game to try BA and see if that will tick like a dot to keep you from being Holy Chained.

As for hp shields, They should make you completely immune to all cc effects for their duration. Holy Chain is either resisted or immuned when it lands on target. Mana Shield immunes you to pretty much everything in the same manner.


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BlankMinded

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 10:15pm

Quoted from "Ghostlord"


I know for a fact that you can't pop blood arrow while Holy Chained as it counts as a regular buff usage skill/item with them derned hidden 0.00000001 cast times. I'm about to head in game to try BA and see if that will tick like a dot to keep you from being Holy Chained.

As for hp shields, They should make you completely immune to all cc effects for their duration. Holy Chain is either resisted or immuned when it lands on target. Mana Shield immunes you to pretty much everything in the same manner.
I am not sure about holy chains, but this is false. HP shields only protect you from most "cc" skills that first inclict damage, then a secondary effect (like lightning, discharge, or knockdown skills). Skills like silence, or shadow prison, or warden banish, or movement restrict, or warrior shout/terror, all work through hp shields (including mana shield), because hp shields only block damage ...they aren't "magic immunity" and these skills don't "require" damage for their effects to be applied.

Two exception to the "blocks dmg + effect" skills, is strike of punishment, whihc gets applied regardless of hp shields, and warrior slash (the bleed gets applied even if no damage gets inflicted). There may be others that I am unaware of, but those are the only 2 I know of thus far.

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Wednesday, June 17th 2015, 11:07pm

Thank you Blankminded, I should have held off on my post about the cc's until I had time to test them again in game. As other non damaging cc's, Holy Chains does indeed work on HP shields and Mana Shield.

As for Holy Chains and blood arrow, Blood Arrow does count as a harmful dot in that if you cast it before being cc'd by holy chains it will constantly remove the Holy Chain effect. So as a Warrior/scout for example, it would be safe to pop blood arrow in order to avoid K/S Holy Chain CC. Extremely useful for group fights involving K/S's. I would imagine any self hp draining skills, such as the warlock Self-Distortion set skill would work as well

*edit*
Just got done testing Heal over Times. HoTs have no effect on Holy Chains. The Holy Chains stun effect will remain on target when it has Heal ticks


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ghostlord" (Jun 17th 2015, 11:13pm)

Rougetopriest

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Thursday, June 18th 2015, 1:28am

Remember that while testing, Shield of Discipline reflects 50 points of magical damage, so if the target in siege war that you are trying to holy chains is smart enough to place a DoT on you, and your SoD is active, it will proc and remove the holy chains stun from the target who placed the DoT on you.

The warlock ISS, priest's Holy Candle, and a scout's Blood arrow will all remove the stun.

Needless to say but, I've seen k/s's do it to me in siege war before so... Use holy Chains from a distance so you do not white hit removing the stun right after.

As Blank said nothing but damage can be used to get out of it but prevention includes skills that protect you from 'helpless' (Warlock defense net), magical immunes (cake/seren, holy aura, w/ch elite), or silencing/stunning the k/s to buy time.
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Earagorn

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39

Thursday, June 18th 2015, 4:16am

My light resistance is 0, ill find or make one of them and try it with some trash gear. Also that is definitely a weird bug tbh lol.

Just catching up on all the posts, some great info here and though for me to test it all is going to take some time but as of yet I rarely have SoD or anything on myself when I use either skill. I was aware of some of the skills that would block certain cc but most of the toons used on are knights, rogues, wardens and such as they are out front or solo when I come across them.

I wasn't sure about the Hot's and thought it would be interesting if that would be a factor. Though to have the same effect of the skill in almost every possible situation, though obviously not the perfect one to have it work seems odd. I will do further testing once I'm done fully removing and re installing a new client on the main hdd for my main toon.

The other issue is the shackles of light, again if it is possibly the bug for the light resistance thing then prob solved and I did get the elite for it at 60 cap and then was gone from the game for awhile whence a lot of changes were made but the skill literally does nothing, log will say I use it and it has yet to work(icon showing included) on any mob/npc/player of any lvl and class as of yet. There was also someone who posted saying that they changed the skill and you don't need a target as it will root all targets in a certain radius.

As I mentioned after that, for me to use it I have to have something targeted or it will be unusable, possible glitch or misinformed about the targeting thing? regardless it remains usable with no effect.

achilleas1

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Thursday, June 18th 2015, 1:10pm

Is your client fully updated to the latest patch?

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